[FRC Blog] Stop Build Day 2018

Posted on the FRC Blog, 10/5/2017 Stop Build Day 2018 | FIRST

About one year ago, in this blog, we revealed the results of an extensive survey we did of the community regarding their thoughts on Stop Build Day. No survey is perfect, but if this one showed anything, it showed that there is no strong consensus one way or the other on this topic which is so fundamental to our culture and how we operate.

We have seen and considered several schemes for modifying the Stop Build Day concept. These schemes were even a topic of conversation with several Woodie Flowers Award winners at their recent annual gathering. They, too, had no consensus on this topic. It’s not clear that any of these options would be significantly better for the great majority of our community than the system we currently have. Given where we are right now in the calendar, and that even if we knew of an option we were comfortable with it would need to be run by folks outside FIRST HQ, the 2018 season will retain our traditional Stop Build Day.

We recognize the current system has drawbacks. We are still open to considering options and changing things in the future. This decision is final for 2018, but not for 2019 and beyond.

Frank

I appreciate Frank clarifying it explicitly, though I still have much the same sentiment as when they survey went out. The apparent transparency is thoughtful.

Ask good questions to get better answers, same as teams operate. Is the question here “Should we get rid of stop build day?” or is it “What impact does getting rid of stop build day have, and is it worth any gains or losses teams may face?” I’ll try to avoid :deadhorse: ing it though, this isn’t about Stop Build explicitly.

Well, for 2018, Team 900 has opted to continue its tradition of building two robots.

At home or at an event? :rolleyes:

Add how many are they entering in competition?

And with that, may the dollars flow as freely from my wallet as they ever have before! :frowning: The clarity now is a good thing though. I realize there is no one-size-fits-all right answer. May the debate continue on!

I mean, we already knew that Stop Build Day was still gonna be a thing for 2018. They’d already told us. But this shows us that they’re taking it seriously. The survey sent out had its flaws and didn’t necessarily indicate that HQ was really evaluating the impact of Stop Build. So this blog makes me feel better about the chances of HQ taking a good hard look at the policy. So this blog is a net positive in my eyes.

I’ll rarely complain about transparency.

I appreciate the continued transparency on Stop Build Day and the acknowledgement that they have been giving alternatives serious thought. That’s really all I can ask of them for now.

I do think more thought and consideration should be given to compromise or transition proposals, such as Robot Access Periods for all teams every week (on top of what District teams already get), which still preserves the “deadline” aspect of Stop Build, but helps bring practice robot teams and non practice robot teams closer together in access / capability.

In a previous thread, someone smarter than me made this observation: the only practical way to change stop build day is to do it incrementally.

Frank’s post confirms that idea – there will be no lightning bolt from the sky.

Wait, does “traditional stop build day” mean they’re not doing the new “stop build hour” established last year? One year of a new thing does not make a tradition in my opinion.

I’ll plan on stopping at 9pm pacific time here in California, but if they let us go to midnight, I’ll go to midnight… maybe.

Good to see some consideration on this.

I don’t think they meant to imply they were getting rid of this, that’s reading into it a bit too far. I expect standardized start and stop times to remain as long as we have start and stop times.

+1!!!

And what really got my attention: If they did find something they were somewhat comfortable with, they’d run it by some people outside HQ to check it. The last time they did a seismic shift, even the “usual suspects” to hear about such things reported hearing nothing ahead of the public announcement (this was stated after the announcement came out).

I agree, though: Thinking about the alternatives seriously is about all we can ask for, at least until about April. That would give them more time to collect input, launch a second survey, and otherwise plan.

Let’s see, what excuses will be pulled out by people this time to try to excuse the fact that a significant portion of FRC is in fact in favor of the current system?

This has been a civil thread where nobody is being overly combative in favor of their own position here. If you’re going to join the discussion, please engage it in good faith and not with a one sentence post asserting that everyone who disagrees with you is trying to manipulate the conversation before they even begin to do so. There’s no reason to pointlessly escalate and cause conflict.

And a “significant portion” of FRC is in favor of changing it, per the survey results. Was there a point to this one liner other than trying to start an argument?

+2

FRC is this really awkward monolith. It can certainly dictate the terms of engagement, but there are many moving parts outside of the walls of Manchester that keep the ship afloat.

No one could stop FIRST from moving to the split champs, but it affected how suppliers plan for events, how teams handle traveling to events, how many teams drop the cash on the new slots and how that money spent affects them and their community, volunteer and (mainly) staff fatigue, etc.

Likewise, no one can stop FIRST from changing the paradigm of the current 15 week season, but it can have affects on FRC and other robotics programs in and out of the FIRST umbrella. How would the move affect suppliers? Schools? Other programs that depend on the suppliers and schools to have certain availabilities that complement FRC’s resource needs instead of competing with it?

FRC is an incredibly inefficient endeavor with regards to the broad mission of inspiring students to pursue careers in STEM fields, but is the best in its class when it comes to a mentor-based program that serves that goal. How would this move affect the mentoring corps?

To be somewhat cynical, FIRST does not need to adjust the status quo to keep the high activity teams in FIRST. They will complain about the bag for a number of highly justifiable reasons, but FIRST likely already burned them with split championships and they’re all still here; why would maintaining the bag rules affect them?

Conversely, low-activity teams that fear the change might see mentors drop out of the program and take their teams, however effective at being teams they may be, with them. Suppliers, volunteers, staff, and low-activity teams are the target constituents for massaging the rules surrounding the bag. They make up the bulk quantity of activity on this, and it’s important to consider them.

Moving to the split championship model did not allow for any other means to the end other than ripping off the proverbial band aid, for better or for worse. Potentially evolving from stop build day does not require such a drastic and compressed series of actions–in fact it’s probably better served by seeing exactly what we can and can’t work with over a long period of time. The slow rollout of the district system is somewhat evidence of this approach being beneficial. It would be very difficult to flip the switch on that model overnight. As much as it would benefit teams in the long run, potentially imploding it in the short-term would obviously negate any positive long-term benefits.

Start this year, or next year, pulling on the threads that bind the restriction together. Give everyone some OOB hours. Be in contact with teams of all shapes and sizes over the small changes, and decide whether or not to hold the line, push it forward, or pull it back in. Let’s figure out if it is helping the program, hurting the program, or not changing it at all.