Relax all, it is just peer voting.
Unfortunately we are 119.7 lbs and will not be adding a 30 point climber. We have given the robot the ability to go to a steeper shooting angle though and may give shooting at the top of the pyramid a go.
Not many teams can go 3/3 in a season: 33, 118, 469, 1114, 1983, 1986, and 2056 are the only ones to go 3/3 with regional victories. 1983 is the only one that has done it in 3 back to back competitions. Think about that for a moment: with an immediate turn around between events and very little time to iterate and perfect their designs, they still win every week. That’s just amazing. They might not be as well known as the Canadian duo or the famous Texas and California teams, but they deserve to be recognized among the top. I’m gonna hop onto the 1983 fan train and hope they go far at Championships.
There are over 2500 FRC teams.
There are over 6 dozen events this year.
There were only 80 ballots.
There is plenty of time for me to
a) respect a team like 1983 that won 4 banners in 3 straight events
b) watch Mike & Justin’s show and have some fun for a few hours
c) pass my Computer science class
But, as I imagine is the case for a lot of people, it’s hard to take the right amount of time to do the due diligence necessary to fill out a bracket that one is comfortable calling an honest assessment of the top 1% of teams in competition, so polls go entirely unfilled.
It’s a peer poll. It’s all for fun. Like there is an East Coast bias in sports, the poll reflects an obvious Northeast, California, and Michigan bias because there are high concentrations of teams there and a high likelihood voters hail from those locations. Results like 1986 and 111 are results of being very visible presence on Chief Delphi, which honestly can’t be said for a lot of teams in the Southeast or Northwest.
If you built a robot and a team that won 4 banners in 3 events, I’m not sure what other validation you need other than that of multiple panels of judges, the results on the field, and most importantly, the impact your team is making at home.
Is there any way to track where voters (and viewers) are from? Something as simple as a state or province or country, just to get a general idea of regional biases?
Hint hint: Future field on the voters ballot:D
To steal from another sport that uses a (ridiculous) ranking system maybe we adopt the BCS style of ranking from college football.
We take a general populus vote (AP Poll)
Then certain mentors from established teams and educated people from delphi are selected and they cast a ballot (coaches poll)
And then we use some style of FIM point calculation for the entire nation (dont need to rank just need to know how many points they got in their own region or whatever) And we just combine those
I think it sounds a lot harder than it would be shrugs But the BCS doesnt work either sooooo
FRCtop25 used to do a coaches poll; and it was decent and accurate. The current rankings are garbage, it’s more about buzz and hype than anything else.
There are no NE teams on this list.
Rather than ranking, it would be nice for the show to shift to showcasing cool robots and highlights. Kinda like the mentor poll, where certain key people write references for a cool robot or game highlight in their area.
With all the OPR data done by Ed Law, and threads showing district raking points, I don’t really need another list of robots in sequential order.
I like listening to top 25 for its entertainment value. I think showcasing the top 25 coolest robots and highlights of the week would have me hooked every week.
I really like the FRC Top 25 for this reason. Every week, there is a smattering of teams I’ve never heard of on it that are amazing.
These are the teams that don’t win the banners, don’t have a big presence on CD, and are generally unknowns in the community. But these teams have built otherwise world-class machines that some very knowledgeable peers have chosen to recognize.
Without a doubt, I scan the list for teams I DON’T recognize, and pay a lot more attention to them than the ones I DO. To me, this is the best part about FRC Top 25.
In fact…
There is a big grin on my face seeing the team in the #17 spot, who no one outside of Ontario has ever seen before. Yet enough people have picked up on them to recognize that a robot with:
- a 7-disc auton
- feeder station cycling/pyramid shots
- ground pick-up/pyramid shots
- full court shooting
- 10pt hang
…is probably one of the best robots in the world right now - despite this team NEVER having won a regional, or ever qualifying for champs before.
They’re one of the least recognized teams with respect to the amount that they’ve been able to achieve consistently for the past few years, both on and off the field.
I have a week off work and am spending it scouting… a lot of teams. I’ve seen nearly every team in FIRST at this point - though am only 1/2 done scouting them…
RE: Northwest Teams
There are four or five really, really strong teams in the Pacific Northwest that would rank in the top 25 (though top ten is questionable) - if they can manage not to have mechanical problems. 2471, 1983, 360, 1318 and 948 all have very good robots, however each (except maybe 360?) has had some sort of issue at some point… It’s hard to rank them that high in a subjective pole with the "issues’ they’ve had. Consider: 1983 might be the best robot in the Northwest, but, in three competitions, have yet to take the #1 seed.
RE: Those Canadians
Yup… There are a lot of really, really good robots in Canada. Watch the videos for the Greater Toronto East Regional… 1114 and 2056 are really, really good… Really good. They might be the best two robots in FIRST.
RE: Other areas
Yes, there are areas where robots are stronger than others… There are cases where a robot plays in two regionals, in different geographic areas. At both, it peforms just about the same. However, at one it doesn’t get chosen for eliminations. At the other, it’s one of the top three or four bots.
One weakness of any top 25 list is that it does not account for robots with very different purposes. This is an alliance game and, to win, you need robots to do different things - just as, in football, you won’t win too many games with a team full of linebackers. Some robots focus on cycling, others on picking up loose disks, some on climbing and others on distance shots. How do you compare a FCS vs. a cycling bot, for instance? Whose the better football player, the quarterback or middle linebacker?
Mike and Justin make it clear every week that this is just for fun, and if you don’t vote you cannot complain!
They take a lot of time to do their show when they are busy with school and their own teams, too. Mike & Justin already know how much I love them (despite the fact that my team has never been on their list) just because they are so passionate and entertaining week after week. So thanks guys, for being so energetic and amazing in every show (and in real life, you guys are pretty cool too;) ).
This post just about sums it up.
Its for fun.
Personally, we had a great season, was #1 all 3 events, hope we never have a mishap like the one this past weekend, and most importantly had fun this season.
In looking at this poll, it does nothing for us, in terms of focusing on what we need to do, in order to be successful at CMPs and the kind of partners we need/others need that we have to offer.
There are tons of experienced scouters at CMP. I hope our team is ready to scout each and every team in our division in case we end up in the top 8.
The Northwest might get some attention next year when we switch to the district model.
Neither has 1114.
only because 2056 has a better auton.
It’s great to here feedback like this. As a senior member of the team who has been through 5 finals against 2056 and 1114 it has been tough. However, they are role models and push our level of play each year. Thanks to the wild card rule we are attending championships (as Mr. Lim stated and thanks to 610 and 3756).
If you haven’t heard about our team (1310) here are a few clips:
http://watchfirstnow.com/archive3.php?id=62472036
http://watchfirstnow.com/archive3.php?id=63000921
http://watchfirstnow.com/archive3.php?id=62515533
The Academy Awards started out being an excuse to have a night out and hash over some insider opinions about the movie industry in tinsel town. Then the moguls got ahold of it and turned it into a “really big deal.” Does the Academy do a good job of recognizing accomplishments in entertainment? Depends on where and who you are, but it is certainly a source of discussion for those who are interested.
Are Mike and Justin in the same position as the Oscars? No. Not yet? Are they one of the focal points of discussion about FIRST accomplishments? Sure. And they do hand out stickers. Are they likely to engage Price Waterhouse to monitor the balloting? Not likely. Do we care? Not me, I’m just thankful when I can remember to “tune” them in on time. Thanks, guys.
Fun fact:
Team 11 is #21 on the Top 25 list.
Their OPR rank is also #21.
(off to see how the rest of the teams line up)
Mike and Justin always do a great show, there’s no doubt. I always enjoy the 2 hours the show runs. Sometimes the voters show their bias in their rankings, so the rankings will never satisfy everyone. The vast majority of the FRC community doesn’t participate in the vote, and an even smaller portion of the minority that DOES vote actually does their research before voting. It’s easy to get frustrated at the rankings are when you do most of your research and vote. (Although I’m guilty of regional biases too).