I’m assuming this includes elimination matches as well? Also, if I’m not mistaken, I do not believe that 3322 can balance (or they never tried). That forces them to pick 2 robots that are able to balance, but also let’s them focus on scoring throughout the entire match. I don’t know, it’s just my opinion, I’ve been wrong many times in the past lol.
According to our data from this weekend, 3322 attempted a coop balance 4 times and was success once. They also tried a single bot balance 3 times and was successful once. So they can balance.
FRC Top 25, I’m gonna let you finish but Daisy had one of the best 1st week performances of all time.
Only kind of joking, but seriously 341 did an amazing job, surprised they didn’t get #1. When I put my list together I looked hard at who won the competition, then did some ranking based on OPR, and on where teams got knocked out. Qualifications during a week 1 can be rough, so I thought it was fair to prioritize elimination performance in my list. I missed a few robots but other than that my list included 21 of the top 25 (1 of the teams I missed was my own).
My list:
- 341
- 1986
- 1218
- 16
- 1477
- 58
- 131
- 3476
- 234
- 148
- 1918
- 3322
- 231
- 772
- 118
- 935
- 33
- 85
- 357
- 4161
- 1138
- 862
- 51
- 399
- 2016
3322 can balance. In match 9 we scored 40 points by ourselves, including 10 points from balancing alone on the bridge. We tried balancing on the Coopertition bridge on Friday with 33 and failed, but in one of our matches on Saturday we balanced the Coop bridge.
We realized that the Coopertition bridge was a huge aspect of the ranking system, but in our matches we mostly tried to depend on our alliance partners (who couldn’t score) to balance the Coopertition bridge. They would fail a lot of the time. We also were experiencing brownouts in our Jaguars that would cause us to fail halfway through our matches. In fact, this happened in every match we lost. Thus, our hybrid score was high but our bridge score was not. It’s hard to balance a bridge when your robot cannot move.
The data is only from the Standings of the Qualification Matches.
During the elims both 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match. 33 was hitting their Hybrid mode, while 2337 started marking shots during Tele.
This game changes a lot from the Qualification round to the Elims.
-Clinton-
It was my understanding that 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match for eliminations because they got their shooters working better. There is no reason for 33 to not hit their hybrid mode in qualifications if they have it working.
This game shouldn’t be extremely different between qualifications and eliminations. If the best teams all focus on balancing the Coopertition bridge in qualifications instead of focusing on scoring, then how are the top 8 going to know who the best scorers are in order to make the best picks?
We didn’t get our shooter working better, just working more. We changed focus from coop bridges in qualifications to the hoops in elims. If anything changed, it was the drivers experience using the shooter. We didn’t end up touching the shooter all weekend.
Scouting? That’s how we did it.
I feel its kinda arbitrary to discuss how the rankings come out in the end due to the fact that not everyone is a scouting master. We have to understand that the results are subjected to what “hot” regional is being watched for that week. Regional broadcasts although absolutely amazing to have, don’t always focus on every single robot in a moment of shine or trouble its up in the air on what voters see unless they are at that regional.
The question of is 1477 better than 118 and 148 and should be higher? Results say yes they are, but in the top 25 they are ranked lower than others and we ask why their performance on the field says so they came out the victor right? There also is an alliance that also helped them #Cutthenet because no one team can make it with out help, so why some of these teams on the list?
Its a lot for one person to consider when voting that I just think most people don’t have the time to look at fully so it some what does become a popularity contest. I think its our job as viewers and educated “firsters” whom do pay attention to every detail to make note of these things during chat of the show, but at the end of the day it is a public poll so people will pick their favorite teams that they have seen or know by rep.
Good show this week interested in this weeks play and future play throughout the season good luck all teams competing in weeks out.
My point is that if a team isn’t scoring in qualifications, it’s hard for scouts to figure out how well they will score in eliminations.
I would agree with that. We took a chance by going for the coop bridges that teams would see that we were going for ranking score, and not trying to score balls in teleop. In a perfect world, we would have been able to demonstrate our shooter during Friday and Saturday morning, but we weren’t going to risk losing the coop bridge to shoot balls.
Scouting wise, we gave teams points for being able to balance the coop bridge with another robot. In our scouting data, it put us at a pretty accurate spot by calculated contribution.
To an extent that is true. However, you have to change your scouting focus from number of baskets made to expected value per shot attempt, then have some metrics for gathering efficiency.
Another scouting method would be to only scout baskets made during the first minute of the match (or some other time during the match at which most robot abandon scoring in favor of balancing.
This one isn’t totally related to the thread topic, but its hard to resist responding.
IMO, scouting is not easy and it’s certainly not just about tabulating the numbers. Your team should understand this, picking 3601 was a fabulous pick, and they were exactly as you stated “a team that wasn’t scoring in qualifications.”
In some cases we took 60 seconds out of our match to do it Its just far to important to not do or even attempt I really hope this catches on and teams understand how it can help both teams as a game within a game.
Thanks! 3601 was really high on our list because they could balance very well and could feed us balls in autonomous. They were scoring in qualifications, having way more balance points than all the teams around their rank. We didn’t pick them to be a scorer, though.
I’m sorry that this thread has been derailed, but I think some great points were made and I’ve learned a few things.
Note that I have not voted yet as I think I am not informed enough to vote accurately. I was at Kettering on Saturday and watched it on the webcast Friday, so I can tell you this with definite certainty:
3322 is a deadly, deadly shooter in both teleop and hybrid.
33 got way, way better on Saturday and was fantastic in the elimination rounds.
2337 is also a deadly, deadly shooter especially in the last 30 seconds.
3322’s alliance had between a 6 and 12 point lead after hybrid in the finals in all three matches. 33 and 2337 worked together to score as many as they could until the 30 second mark. That is when 2337 absolutely took over the match. They scored an insane amount of baskets in the last 30 seconds. In my opinion, 2337 was the best individual robot at Kettering. 3322, 33, and 51 were all second (on Sat) to 2337. In any case, I really like how this game plays in elims and it looks like there are some new faces in the “top robot” race. These are all good things for FRC and for the robotics community in general.
Ah yes, this is true, they did have bridge points (I was thinking mainly about shooting). They were a good support bot.
Team 3601 couldn’t shoot. I was one of the student who were scouting around the pits for a good second pick. I was particularly attracted to team 3601 because they could balance well and could tip the bridge. However, I noticed that a lot of robots at Kettering were a fender shooter, so I was looking for a robot with 4 CIMs in the drivetrain and a good choice of wheels (no nylon or rubber) to play defense. Team 3601 matched this description and amazingly enough, not too many other teams had 4 CIMs in the drivetrain at Kettering. Sadly, my alliance never took the defensive position during the elims. Beyond this, I also eyed 3601 because I already had the idea of having 3601 spit balls into our robot during Hybrid period to score 24 points. Team 862 was originally going to run into the bridge at an angle to get the balls off the coopertition bridge until some brilliant person decided to have them shoot their balls into 3601’s mega-hopper.
Back to topic, I honestly think that team 1477 should have ranked higher than 148 and 118, which were both very impressive robots. Team 2337 should have been on par with team 33, as team 2337 was a highly accurate robot with their shooting. Finally, team 341 should have been ranked 1 due to their exceptionally high level of shooting.
I call hacks! Yeah, 341 should have been top. But Top 25 is just for fun, regardless of where people land. At the end of the day, the best bots will still be the best bots, regardless of where 76 random people on the Internet rank them.
I take offense to that! 
Let’s assume he meant “…where 76 people randomly rank them…” instead of “…where 76 random people:mad: rank them…” :yikes: