Fresh from the forum

CD Forum Support
1

Hello everyone,

I know you can really use some more sleep right now…  I know you have tons of work piled up waiting to be done…  I know you have family members whom you haven’t talked to more than 5 minutes in the past week…  I know you are overloaded with coffee, soda, and pizza…  

             And there is nothing that can change how things are…  It will only get worse in the next 5 weeks.  You think you are “feeling the stress” right now?  Well think again, because when you push on continuously for 26 hours without sleep, and down to the last hour trying to bolt the 30 pounds soccer ball handling mechanism on a 150 lbs drive train, and 15~20 high school student around you screaming “WHERE IS THE 7/16” wrench~!?!”, and you are drinking out of your last can of Mountain Dew with 21 minutes before the shipping company come pick up the crate, and you start wondering, “Wait a minute…  what crate~?!?”…

THEN you will know what “feeling the stress” REALLY mean.

Gotten busy with your team now that season has started?  Don’t fret, all the need-to-know info from the chiefdelphi.com forums right here at your fingertips.

-Ken Leung
1999-2001: Team 192 GRT
2001~???: Team 000, 100, 192, 258…

2

Woodie, Dean, and the FIRST crew did a wonderful job at Manchester this year. It was unfortunate that Jim Utaski wasn’t able to speak that day, but the rest of the speakers really got through to us with their speeches. I thought they did a great job explaining the game, making sure that even rookie teams understand some of the important part of the game. Demonstrations of the goal tracking and ball shooting devices were pretty cool to watch. That’s something new this year, encouraging people to think outside the box, especially with the new custom electronics board teams are allow to play with this year. FIRST also let loose some of the rules that didn’t work out last year, so that proves FIRST really do listen to teams. And I want to thank them for an exciting game this year (and I really did went up and shake Dean, Woodie, and Eric’s hand to say thank you).

I can safely assume that everyone took apart the game/field down to every inch, and can write out the game rules backward without even a peek at the binder, so there’s no need to spell out the rule in here. For those who are still interested, check out this thread:

Help an over sleeper – what is the game about?
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1437
(still confused? Take a look at “scoring key-2002” and the game simulator inside whitepaper: http://64.119.166.94/forums/papers.php?s= )

Field objects picture can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/cbteam234/2002field.html
http://64.119.166.94/forums/pictures.php?s=&galleryid=61&perrow=4&trows=3&direction=DESC&sort=date

All the Web cast of kickoff and different workshops can be found here, which I really recommend for those of you who didn’t watch it live at Manchester, remote kickoffs, or NASA TV:
http://explorer.arc.nasa.gov/webcast.html

Content: I. Thoughts on the game
II. Rule discussion
III. Field object discussion
IV. General information
V. Threads that can use more attention
VI. Unanswered questions
VII. Good for a laugh
VIII. Some sort of ending for this letter

I. Thoughts on the game

The forum won’t be complete without thoughts on this year’s game… so during the first week, there were a lot of talks about how people feel about the game.  In general, most people like “Zone Zeal”, how it brought back head to head competition and how the scoring is simple.  In a recent poll, 50 people think “it’s great”, about 15 said “it’s ok”, and only 4 who don’t really like the game.  So, all you readers out there, if you want your voice heard about this, cast a vote in the poll right under the following quotes…

“In my opinion, this game puts FIRST back on track. The game is going to be VERY good. I am sure that it will get A LOT of TV coverage.” –Joe J.
“I personaly like the game, I think F.I.R.S.T. has finaly realized the need for SIMPLE. Also F.I.R.S.T. has given the game a little excitement as far as contact is concerned.” –Nick Reynolds
“Strategy plays an incredible role this year, and I think that many matches will be decided in the final 10 to 20 seconds, which will make for a great deal of exitement.” And “I think that this year there is a great deal of potential to see more smoking, burning, and otherwise ill motors than in the past couple of years.” -tysonwormus
“I really like the fact that the 2v2 was reintroduced. I was kind of disappointed that there weren’t as many things to “do” as last year. Like last year…” –FIRSTAE2004
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1472
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1460 Poll!
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1492
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1446

Not everyone is happy with this game, however.  Some even thought that this year’s game won’t be as exciting as expected…  What do you think?

“but i’m under the impression that everyone will take the easy way out and build a box with wheels and possible some grabbing device” -techknights
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1787

II. Rules discussion- speculation and thoughts of some of the rules inside that 7000 pages+ rule book

Most of the rules this year are the same as previous years, but not all.  There is a new rule this year that says "every team on the alliance must play in every round of the elimination tourney", and there are some interesting speculations about how that rule will affect the game.  Basically this rule means that both alliances during a final round will have to substitute their third robot out for one of the three matches, so we can expect some change of dynamics during the finals because of this substitute…

“The big question is, do you put your best pair out in the first round OR do you put your second best pair out first?” –Joe J.
“This rule will force the issue and ALL of the teams in an alliance will have to prove their mettle in eliminations. A great idea” –Brian C
“Well, not that people will cheat, but I think the rules clearly say that a team does NOT have to compete if it is imobolized.” –bigqueue
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1491

I remember “Three times opponent’s score” of qualifying rounds sparked some interesting discussion back at 2000 when it first came out. After seeing it implemented at regionals and National, most people came to accept the rule, however. Some even liked it a lot.
“I personally don’t mind that rule. I understand that it can be annoying at times, but I think it really just adds more strategy to the game.” –Chris_C
“I happen to love the idea, because it really adds a whole new flavor and dimension to the game.” –bigueue
“I HATED the method when it was first introduced in 2000… but I have to say that in the end, the ranking was no worse than in other year and (imho) probably one of the better methods in actual practice.” –Joe J.
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1464

One coach rule, the rule that only let one adult coach onto the arena during matches.
Seems like this is a pretty emotional topic among the posters… And I don’t feel that I have good enough writing skills to summarize how strongly some of the people feel about this… So you should go ahead and read the thread yourself when you have time…
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1500&perpage=15&pagenumber=1
Poll: http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1620
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1486

III. Field Object discussion- posts about scoring objects

A lot of people talked about the soccer balls… after all, there are 60 of them on the arena, which can mean a total of 60 points for your alliance, double what three goals can offer. Someone asked, how many balls do you think a goal can hold? Well, maybe a better question is, how many balls can you control?
“They didn’t give an exact number but said that it should be over 40” –Matt Leese
“It matters very much for strategy. For instance, if our alliance can only control one goal, what is our maximum score possible?” –Chris Hibner
“Initially, you’d only have access to 50, but since the balls are ‘neutral’, you’d have access to the additional 10 balls when the opposing alliance decides to put them into play - if they decide to put them into play.” -MichaelKrass
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1513

Here are some posts of specs and stores for the soccer balls.
“I purchased 20 balls (orange of course ) and they were exact units. $15 plus shipping at “Soccer World”.” And “Please remember that while they may be a size 5 they are not the same as the balls (Puma) that FIRST is using. That may cause you a problem because of the ball surface.” –Mike Matrus
“Last night while looking for the Puma ball that FIRST uses, I found that the cheapest price on the net was $14.99 (or very close to that) per ball…” –Clark Gilbert
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1448
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1565
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1613

The goals are the major factors in this year’s game, so I posted a question about how hard is it to turn the goals… after all, no balls would count if the goal holding them aren’t in your goal/ball zone…
“There are several things that you need to consider to make a “goal pulling” experiment somewhat accurate. First of all, the position of the casters is important when you start to move the goal…” –Patrick Wang
“We measured the force (straight pull) it takes to move the goal on the carpet from a resting state using a fancy strain gage. It averaged out at around 32-35 lbs.” –Ed Sparks
“the fun part will be pulling other robots and still pull all three goals.” –Mike Norton
“so far my team has broken numerous wood mock ups from them snapping while pulling the goals.” -Caroline
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1563
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1790

3

IV. General Information- useful info that came up in between threads…

Oh yeah, the goals really do weight around 180 lbs each… it was an error at the competition manual that said the goals weight 130 lbs. Check out Team Update one.
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1583
http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/doc_art3.htm
Speaking of which, team updates are really important. They include different rule changes/clarification, and important info like missing motor specs and speed controller info, or the 60 amps circuit breaker testing result and PBASIC program of the goal tracker they showed at kickoff…

As for Question and Answers, FIRST is doing Yahoo! Group this year, which should be a quicker Q&A process. If you have any questions about using it, look at the thread right below, and start posting if you have more questions.
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1606
Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FRCtech2002/

About ordering pneumatics…
“There is an order form on the last page of “The Pneumatic Manual for FIRST 2002 Competition”.” And “The only available bores are 3/4", 1-1/2", and 2". Strokes range from 1/2" to 12"” –Ed Sparks
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1535

About “missing” items in the kit of parts…
“We’ve run into a problem, I think. We are missing a good amount of the parts that were supposed to be included in the kit.” –Michael Krass
“There was a mistake in the manual file listing the actual kit of parts checklist. The valid checklist is getting posted to the website this morning.” -FRCOps
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1483

About ISP extrusion…
“IPS Extruded Aluminum - great for robot skeleton!” –Anton Abaya
“Whether you use IPS, Bosch, 80/20, Palletti, Item MB Kit, ParFrame… it’s good stuff.” and “Let me tell you that these extrusions and fasteners are really cool to use on a FIRST robot. They let you change things during debug… adjustments are easy.” –Andy Baker
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1663

About White papers…

There are a lot of great papers inside white papers section of chiefdelphi.com, about motors, drive train advices, control system, lifting mechanisms, you name what you need, and people will put them into the whitepapers. But recently, there are a lot of fine addition from the Novi kickoff that’s worthwhile to look at.

About Skyway wheels…
“As to the wheels, it is my understanding that ANY Skyway wheels are legal. There are some pretty nice wheels on there.” -Jeff Waegelin
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1728

About Nu-trons WEBCAM is back!
“Tune between 5:00pm and 10:0pm on week nights and all day on the weekends to watch the NU-TRONS saga unfold.” –Joe Canavan
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1498
A team’s who’s willing to show people what they really do during the 6 weeks… So people really do work hard to have a competitive robot built after 6 weeks. THANKS Nu-Trons!

About sub teams…
“do your teams break into subteams for each subsystem on your bot?” -mehtank
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1761
Take a look at how teams divide up their students…

About teams’ new websites… http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1597
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1524
A lot of them did a great job updating their site…

About fundraising…
Don’t forget, fundraising is still important even during the build period… Take a look at all these ideas to raise more money for your team. :wink:
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1461
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1734

V. Threads that can use more attention-

Some of these threads stop growing because the forum is moving too fast, and they simply didn’t caught enough people’s attention… But they are still interesting topics nevertheless, some even good questions that can use more responds. Take a look…

“What’s the most important thing for new Teams to remember?”
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1497
It is always really easy for new teams to be overwhelmed by all the things going on in this competition… So let’s keep the advices going into this thread… There is always something more they can learn from the veteran teams.

What SHOULD be on the CD manual
“I believe that FIRST missed some useful tools that it easily could have added to the CD.
1 InnovationFIRST documentation
2 Parallax software
3 Default Code
4 Pneumatics Manual” –nwagers
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1471
If someone will be nice enough to reply to this, and tell everyone where they can download those 4 things, it will be great.

“Regional kickoffs…”
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1479
Maybe this isn’t the best time to think back to the regional kickoffs, but it is important that we give some feed backs while our memories still fresh. Kickoff is one of the most important thing to start teams on the right track, so let’s make them better and better!

“What do you get out of FIRST?”
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1530
It’s always good to think about why we are doing this project… Especially when we are most stressed and want to give up…

“Recognition needed”
”I was reading some of the posts on the Thread below about schools seeing F.I.R.S.T. as a sport. It saddens me to think that there are so many little minds out there and how so many cleaver , dedicated people can work so long and so hard to not be given the recognition of their efforts.” –Nick Reynolds
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1754
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1735

“Team names? How?”
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1641
Come in and talk about how and when your team got the team name.

“Palm scoring calculator”
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1760
Mike Soukup did a wonderful job at this palm scoring calculator, so let’s help him out and tell him what more you want in it…

“Students vs. adult”
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1757
This thread is still growing on top of General, so I will leave it up to the people to keep it growing.

“FIRST on TV”
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1733
If FIRST is going on TV, which channel should it be on?

“So how much have you all accomplished so far?”
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1791
If you are willing to share your progress, let us know how far you are ahead…

VI. Unanswered questions…

These questions still await the thoughtful answers they deserve…

Trouble with the Microsoft project template?
“Has anyone else had trouble with the Project template file?” –Jon Abad
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1489
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1726

Year book page guideline
“Hi all, Does anyone know where I can find the guideline / layout for the FIRST yearbook page?” –Anne Lam
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1732
Year book example
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1778

AutoDesk streamline?
“My team’s advisor got the e-mail with his streamline account today and we logged in and were trying to figure out this… how do you create new members?” -rollncoast
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1793

Location of Forms?
“Where are some of the registration sites/forms? I couldn’t find the disney release form…” -Nicoleaqueen
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1496

VII. Good for a laugh… :wink:

Take a 5 minute and take a look at these “interesting” threads…

Look at the “robot” my old Team 192 GRT managed to finish within a week
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1611
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1603

Problems with goals…
“We ran into some problems while building the goal… we accidently trapped someone inside.” –Li-Anne D.
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1711

Lost item in the kit?
“It says somewhere in the manual that there should be a item called sleep. It says check the grey bin.” –Anton Abaya
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1522

To all Newbie Teams… :smiley:
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1144
It is good to have a good laugh from time to time… Just make sure we let people know they shouldn’t take them too seriously…

4

Joe’s Tote
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1432
Take a look at how Joe J. almost win it all in the Dr. Joe’s Tote board he set up before kickoff… This will teach you not to place bet with Joe J. too easily.

VIII. Some sort of “ending” for this letter.

I would like to take this opportunity to welcome teams back into the competition, especially Team 16 Bomb Squad, which happens to be one of my favorite teams back at 2000… “Bomb Squad is back…anyone remember us :)”
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1274

And I want to welcome new teams like team 885 from Central Vermont, and many other startup teams across the country. It is really tough to put a team together, and get enough money to pay for competition fee and many other things. You have all came through! Woohoo!
http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1564

.
.
.

Well, finally… More than one week is over now… http://64.119.166.94/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1716

I bet most teams already figured out what they want their robot to look like… I can’t wait to see the many creative ideas I’ve heard from a lot of people. Remember to post a picture of your robot by the end of 6 weeks. :wink:

A lot of you probably noticed a lot of threads missing in this letter… Well, that’s because those threads are more of a “Technical Discussion” or “Strategy”. So keep your eyes on the “Feature Announcements & Forum Help” forum, and look for “Fresh from the forum”- The Tech, and “Fresh from the forum”- The strategy within a day or two.

Also, You are probably starting to feel the “headache” Dean promised you at kick off. :wink: Well, don’t worry about it too much… After all, it’s the learning experience that counts. Always remember, there are a lot of us across the country who will be willing to help out and answer whatever questions you have. So, don’t be shy, and start posting at the chiefdelphi.com forum!

-Ken Leung
1999-2001: Team 192 GRT
2001~???: Team 000, 100, 192, 258…