From Bill's Blog: Merits of replacing bronze participation medals

FIRST General Forum
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I’m subscribed to FRC director Bill Miller’s blog, and had a new post pop up today over lunch that seemed worthy of spotlighting for those who don’t read his blog as often. Relevant bits pasted below:

How would you feel about pins? Are you for or against the suggestion FRC stop handing out bronze participation medallions and provide year specific, game themed participation pins instead? The goal is to reduce costs while improving FRC visibility, but I’d like your opinion before we make any changes. Let me know what you think at [email protected]

Assuming that FIRST executed it correctly, this seems to me like an idea that might hold water. I’ve amassed seven bronze medals over the years (three with 1293, three with 1618, one with 2815), and they tend to sit for a long time in the place where I hang them after they come off my neck that Saturday evening. It won’t please the “But everyone’s a winner for competing” crowd, but I think the practicality of it might win out (especially for us long-suffering types :rolleyes: ).

Can anyone make an argument in defense of the bronze participation medal?

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The bronze medals make better wind chimes…

3

It’d take a lot more pins for ballast to achieve neutral buoyancy on my ROV…

In all seriousness though, I think I would definitely prefer customized pins. IMO they look cooler than bronze medals, and you can add them to a hat or something and keep a record of the games you’ve participated in. The only downside I see is that if they’re truly a one-to-one swap for the bronze medals, the teams that win silver and gold at their first regional will miss out on cool pins…

I’m with Billfred, my bronze medals just hang around and clank when something touches them. They’re nice to complete the timeline, but they’re big and heavy for that purpose alone.

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I like the idea. Hopefully it also permits them to give out MORE PER TEAM so large teams can get enough for all members.

Here’s hoping they get ambitious and create pins with logos from games past. Maybe they could sell them via Logoloc…

5

I would really enjoy some spiffy pins, but I agree with Evan in that it would kinda stink to not recieve one. The thing with a bronze medal is that a silver or gold medal is a direct upgrade. These pins are more shiny stuff that I would like to have.

It might be a little selfish, but I really want more pins to put on my hat/jacket. Hopefully they will be cheap enough to give a bunch to every team.

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Right now, if a student participates for only one season, and their team does not “place” at an event, then he/she still gets to walk away with a medal…

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I remember that Logo Loc offered a FIRST Frenzy patch in 2004. I also remember that they were still trying to clear out the same FIRST Frenzy patch a couple of seasons later in Atlanta.

Gauging demand aside, though, I could co-sign that idea.

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The only problem with that is they would probably end up selling the future/present game pins and then they wouldn’t be as special.

9

Some thoughts:

  1. FIRST already allows teams to purchase extra medallions, trophies, and banners.
  2. There are tens of thousands of bronze medallions around the world already–just from the 2009 season. While the specialness of some items gets watered down in quantity (consider that teams can order a blue banner for any or no achievement), I don’t think this really applies to participation medals.
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It is nice to be able to give members of the team a medal that haven’t been able to travel to the event. Usually on a day shortly following a regional, students wear their team shirt and their medals to school. It is also nice to give one to a sponsor or supporter.

I love the idea of the pins and those could become treasured as well, especially if they are game specific like the Lunacy pin I received. That was just cool.

Downside, I could see people giving away the pins more readily than they do the participation medals or losing them and then regretting that as time passes.

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I think that a custom participation pin for each year would be a lot cooler. While I haven’t been around that long in FIRST (only been in for one season), I’ve collected participation “stuff” from a lot of other various extra-curriculars, and the standard ribbons and medals just aren’t as neat as it could be. And while I know that winning isn’t everything, it’s often felt like a sort of compensatory prize more than anything, especially since the one’s I’ve gotten in the past have all been a standard item of some kind with the competition’s logo, the year, and something along the lines of “participant” written on it with no other differentiation from year to year. The medals here strike me as something similar. However, with a custom pin for each competition, even if you’re not getting a medal for winning something, you are coming out with a neat piece of memorabilia that you can more easily get away with wearing to school on a regular basis, and it isn’t the same exact thing year after year after year…

Man, this is harder explaining my thoughts than I thought…

I suppose the main points I’m trying to make are:
1)participation medals don’t seem like that much of an award to me. a hunk of medal on a ribbon that’s the same every year doesn’t convey the same nostalgia and such that pictures, video, collected pins, traded contact info, etc. can after it’s over
2)for that matter, I don’t feel the medals for the Chairman’s or champion do either, especially if you’re on a team that wins multiple regionals every year and in consecutive years (wouldn’t know, haven’t even had the chance yet). they do, however, come off as feeling a bit more “special,” if only because there’s often a lot more hard work put into these awards than into just getting there in the first place.
3)in the long run, I’d rather have something that I can get away with wearing in public, or in later competitions, without getting looked at like I’m heavily ego-driven. medals don’t do that. banners yes, simply because you can hang them in your pit, and they act more as a team accomplishment in that setting, but running around a competition with a past competition’s medal seems a little “in your face” to me. I’m not sure if a few from a team or all of a team doing this would be worse, though, considering my statement about the banners…
4)the medals don’t really show which games you’ve done. there’s really not much to differentiate at all between the medals, looking at the various medals that have been given out over the years. except for a small aesthetic change on occasion, they’re pretty much identical from year to year
5)since buttons are easy to make, and since there’d be a new one for each game each year, you could easily get the entire FIRST community involved. individual players, or, to cut back on entries, teams, could submit designs during build season, similar to what’s been done with the state quarters. then whoever’s in charge of the endeavor could sort through them and choose the one they feel best suits the competition that year.

In my opinion, I’d rather have the buttons. They’re not gonna get the same condescending looks that a medal is in public, and I’d think that a button for each game would be really neat for nostalgia, as well as tracking which games you’ve done over the years.

Sorry if this is a little long winded. I’m not often the one who wins competitions, and with some of the things I’ve done over the years I’ve felt a little shortchanged in the way they treated the winners versus the rest of us, so I’m a tad opinionated on such a subject as this.

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I only found out this year that there are participation medals…:ahh:

Don’t teams pay for these medals anyway?

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I think it depends. Long time participant & mentors probably don’t care much about the medals. I know my stack has been responsible for pulling more than one poorly placed hanging mount out of the wall! :o

Personally, I’d love to have a pin from each game I played to go with my programs & other FIRST mementos.

But, if I went back to my honeymoon phase with FIRST (you know, before it became an addiction), I would’ve much preferred the medal. They just seem much more solid, you know? I think JVN has a very valid point. Getting a medal for the hundreds of hours you put in seems much more significant than a little pin.

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I think that the pin idea is a great way to cut costs within the FIRST community because it still awards team members for a good well done even if their team did not “place”. However, I think the trophies from this past year should be restored to their old sizes. In general, I believe that their are better ways to cut costs, it seems like transistioning from medallions to pins is such a minute change that it would have little impact on the cost for FIRST (it may save a couple of a million dollars but in the whole grand scheme of things it really isn’t that much). In general I feel as though there are “bigger fish to fry”. Issues such as field components and KoP components, game rules (i.e. using last year’s kit frame) need to be modified if FIRST wants to make a larger impact on the affordability of FIRST. It seems as though FIRST has it’s “expensive” years and its “inexpensive” years, between the new control system and the playing field, 2009 was perhaps the most expensive year of all for FRC teams.

15

I love the medals. Until this year my team hasn’t had much success, but no matter how the robot did, or how the awards turned out- every student walked away with a medal. It solidifies the idea that everyone who comes into a FIRST competition has already won.

EDIT: Also, guys- post these opinions on Bill’s blog so he can see them too! Our voices should be heard. :slight_smile:

16

I have boxes and boxes of FIRST pins stored away, all of my medals are hanging up for everyone who enters my room to see and ask about. I have been more then lucky to be on a “successful” team in my career in FIRST but the idea of everyone getting a chance to hang a medal in their room or door and be able to explain “I was in a contest where I helped build a robot that competed in a competition with students from across the world with some of the largest corporations on the planet sponsoring that has been aired on ESPN and every major news station in the US” is a pretty cool thing to be able to say while showing off a medal, no one outside of FIRST knows the bronze is a participation medal, they see a medal and know that the person who has that was part of something great and they accomplished a task that was deserving of a medal.
Pins would be great for awards of some kind but giving every student who participated in FIRST a medal at the end of the season is one of the reasons why I love FIRST so much, its not a ribbon that is can be made in my basement or a piece of paper that costs 30 cents a copy with fancy letters.

Sorry for the long response but there are other ways to cut costs in FIRST, honoring each and every student, mentor and sponsor who gave so much throughout the season is worth the extra cost in my mind.

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Please don’t yell at Bill tomorrow Libby! :stuck_out_tongue:

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I really like the idea of the pins. However, I would like to keep the bronze medals for both of the third place teams (the losers of the semi-finals) just to get more medals out there. Make it a real bronze medal, not a participation medal. The bronze medal would then be something to brag about (maybe a little) but in any case, I believe that everyone should get a pin whether they medal or not. :slight_smile:

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This is my $0.03 darn inflation…

Pins – I could think of a TON of things we could all do with 19 (19 games…) pins all decorated and put on … something … for those who view our robots at demonstrations. Yet I’m pretty sure that everyone who sees a medal from afar simply says ‘wow, they win alot’ as a first impression.

Heh, maybe I’m just biased because I’m similar to Billfred in that my medals usually sit around collecting dust after a while. The FRC pins though – those go on my work lanyard, and I’m constantly asked about new ones (2008/2009 mentor/coach pin anyone?). On top of that, any student who has 4 pins in a row has something much more impressive and something that’s much easier to talk about than 4 medals that all look alike.

I’m not sure I should even have an opinion on this since we have always won something at our home regionals that give us a ‘placement’ medal. Yet the guys at work usually look past the medals and ask about the mentor-awarded plaques that the medals are hanging on – what are those for, what did you do, who’s in that picture and most important, WOW that looks like fun.

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In FTC, the participants get pins for their involvment and the only reason I have put them on display is because they go nicely with my FRC participation Medal(s).

I know that pins seem like a new/exciting and might even seem like fun at first, but I really like the medals idea. It gives everyone a chance to be in the ‘not’ losing spirit if you walk away with a medal around your neck.

Personally, I prefer medals simply because I’ve recieved both and it’s much more fulfilling to walk away with a medal around my neck than a pin in my hand…