FSN Goal??

Well,

I’ve been thinking. What really should be the goal of FSN? There are a few routes which this project can go in.

  1. Well, this one will be there no matter what. A Scouting Database. I will hope to have one “master” DB with then mirrors located on whatever server wants one. Exactly how this will work is still a little in the air. Hopefully, once FSN gets a server, things concerning this can get a little more worked out. :slight_smile:

Now, here comes the “split” part.

How much further should the “FSN” project go, and how much should be left for teams to do. Here’s what I’m trying to say with that.

Should FSN have a Palm App? This would be designed by a team of people, with input provided by the entire FIRST community. (Here on CD) Of course, other teams could make other palm apps as long as they imported/exported in the standard format, and FSN would provide links to them. But, there would be at least one palm app. OR… the other route to go here is that there would not be anything developed by a team of people as the FSN app. It would be up to teams to create whatever they wanted, and then hopefully share it with the FIRST community. This palm app holds true for paper, filemaker, ppc, access, …

What that questions asks is the real “goal” of FSN? Is it to be a database or a system? Will FSN just have some simple stuff, and then leave it up to teams to create web interfaces, and other programs? OR… should it be more of a system, where everything is attempted to be made by FSN. Of course, the later would still have the first db part which would allow teams to create their own interfaces. And, the FSN site would have links to those team creations.

Here’s what I’m really tring to ask. I would like to begin to recrute people to “lead” different parts of FSN. Website, DB, XML, Access, PPC, Palm, Paper, … These people would “lead” the development of these different branches. They would request help from others as needed, have their work in progress avaible to view, and contiue to post updates/idea requests on CD. However, would this be “breaking” the entire idea of FSN not having any “offical” product? Of course, teams could in addition create whatever they wanted which would interface as long as it complied with the data format.

Do you get what I’m trying to say here? What do you think?

I’m just trying to figure out what people really want FSN to do for them/others so that I can decide what FSN needs to do next.

Thanks,

Jack

I think FSN should be a system, and design as many different programs as possible. If teams want to make their own then they will, but not all teams have people who know enough to write the program and if a basic program is provided I think more teams will take part in FSN.

Lindsey

Yeah, you should have the scouting database with standard input tools, but give other teams the ability to import/export and make their own tools. [to share, or not to share]

Well, I really wouldn’t like to see 100 websites with the exact same scouting information, and the exact same layout. I think it should be a simple “standard” as was started earlier this past season. There should just be ways for input and output that teams can develope on their own. If another team wants to set something up, they should, and that is what I will be planning on doing.

I don’t see the point of FSN if we don’t have some form to standard. Otherwise, everybody might as well just give out their Scouting data whenever you walk up to their pits - it would be simpler.

*Originally posted by AJ Quick *
**Well, I really wouldn’t like to see 100 websites with the exact same scouting information, and the exact same layout. I think it should be a simple “standard” as was started earlier this past season. There should just be ways for input and output that teams can develope on their own. If another team wants to set something up, they should, and that is what I will be planning on doing. **

There won’t be 100 websites with the same layout. There will be a central FSN site that anyone can access, and any team can use the assembled data as they see fit. If a team wants to design their own front-end for the system, they’re welcome (and encouraged) to. The only requirement is that the standardized data fields be output in the FSN standard format, whatever that may be. Beyond that, teams can use the system as they please. If they want to throw data up in their own formatting, they’re welcome to.

I think the goal should be to create a simple easy to use main database for scouting information.

I personally have seen many team scouting databases and they have literally been very confusing…:eek:

My team has no knowledge in programing at all… We have one Chemical Engineer who does the programing who helps and shows the kids what he is doing!

At competitions we have scouting sheets and we unlease about 5+ kids and each person goes around asking the teams about their robot. I think it needs to be a website that you can go to and either download the scouting info you need or print out a simple page with all the info you need. It needs to have each teams info categorized by competition. It also needs to have a search bar where you can just type in the number and it automatically finds their data. It also needs some type of team contact forum where you can ask teams different things about their team or robot. It might also be helpful to have some way of blocking the information out you dont want to know about a robot… some teams dont care what drive motors a robot has…the list goes on It also needs to include pictures for easy identification

IT needs to be very simple in order for this network to become effective…

My 222 cents
Bad Brad

I think the main goal of FSN should be creating, coordinating, and maintaining the centralized database for FIRST teams. As well as develope a standard for all of the different scouting databases to work off of so that they are all compatable. In addition to that the goal should also be to make scouting easier for all first teams weither it be by releasing the data to the public in non digital forms at competitions or developement of front ends for the software. This secondary goal should not become more important than the first and primary goal.

The important thing to keep in mind is that since FSN is sharing with the public the database the public should make it its job to share with everyone else programs to use the database. Ie. Palm Scouting software and software in every concievable format and complexity.

Thats my idea.

*Originally posted by Jeff Waegelin *


You misunderstood me.

FSN needs to be a centralized website (I had thoughts about this last fall, but it didn’t go anywhere cuz i’m not a webmaster)

On the main fsn page there will be a list of all the team numbers (possibly with team names next to the numbers)

When you click on a number, you enter a teams designated area.

On the main team page there will be a link to the team’s website, pictures of robot, team location, events attending.

There will be a link to a form that may be filled out anonymously (or scouters may put their team # on it). But only one person may fill out a form with a username and password associated with it. This way, a single scouter may change data as time progresses.

I assume that there will be hundreds of forms filled out for each team, people may view everyone’s forms and opinions concerning that team.

However, compiling hundreds of people’s data could be time consuming, so we’ll design the form to be mostely multiple choice.

When the multiple choice things are clicked on (similar to the polls on delphi), you’ll get a percentage of people who clicked a certain choice. (under the belief that the majority is correct)

  • on the main page, for each question, the multiple choice answer with the greatest percentage will be posted
  • however, there will be a link off the main page so people may view the total percentage for every answer of a question on a secondary page

I understand that teams will look at their own page and figure out what things they need to work on. I only hope that as a team tries to make themselves better, that scouters will change their data on the forms to remain consistant.

Because you are incorportating the opinions of many, I dont think that anyone would post ill information to bring a team down. But if that happens, there are so many people submitting information that it shouldn’t matter too much.

As with any scouting system, this method isn’t completely fool proof. Use it as an aid and don’t be totally dependent on it because you never know who is most correct.

  • The more people who use it and submit forms, the more correct it will be.
  • Design it to be idiot proof.
  • feel free PM me if you have questions… this post might be a little vague. But I think this method (or a variation of it) would work the best!

ByE

erin

Ok well alot of what you guy’s are saying already exists. Ever been to Soap’s website (team 108’s scouting site http://www.soap108.com/) I mean this has most of the stuff you guy’s are asking for like the search bar, movies, detailed info of bots, but the only thing is that someone has to enter info for a bot.

ok all…

thanks a lot for the feed-back…

give me a few days to get some resources up & then i may be asking some people to start making some “test” stuff :smiley:

Yes, what Erin described is exactly as SOAP, (and FEDS, and even the CogSquad) have their site set up. What we need is a database with simple input and output methods, with a standard developed. Such a thing shouldn’t be made overly complexed… basically all we need is a XML accessable database where people can add, and retrieve information seamlessly. And a How-To information site, (the scouting site), on how to add and retrieve.

Palm programs, and web portals should be up to individual teams, and other teams should adopt other teams methods of scouting input. (ie Heatwave’s PocketPC app). Teams should then be able to go to Heatwave’s Site, or SOAPs, or whatever, and see that information added via PocketPC. This should not be a complete site that takes up the entire role of Scouting… what else would be left for teams to do? If they can’t do what they want, why would they adopt?

Yes, I believe that if a centralized FIRST Scouting Network were to actually work, it can’t be associated with a specific team. Otherwise, not as many people would post up their scouting sheets or all the information will be decentralized across various team’s websites.

I think that the programers of the sites above should help out with FSN and its design/layout. You can probably offer better advice than me as to how to program it.

I’m just mentioning, that as a user/viewer, that using forms and such would be the easiest way.

Most Engineers are lazy or overworked (haha, but so true), so make the site as simple and user friendly as possible. (I think SOAP could have been a bit easier, but that’s just because I’m lazy too)

so yup… fsn is the way to go!

ByE

erin

The difference between FSN and SOAP(or any of the others) is that FSN is completely open source and not associated with any team. Anyone can update and anyone can get access to the actual database rather then having to go through and copy the data out and into their database. The FSN database will have basicly a ‘feed’ of data to input into your database. Also FSN is much more of a collective rather then one team doing it.

I hope that all of the teams that already have a web presence in the world of FIRST scouting and the teams that have their own databases already all join into the FSN network. It will make all of the databases more powerful and more versatile.

*Originally posted by oneangrydwarf *
**I hope that all of the teams that already have a web presence in the world of FIRST scouting and the teams that have their own databases already all join into the FSN network. It will make all of the databases more powerful and more versatile. **

I think that is really the goal. FSN is not designed to replace teams’ scouting efforts. It’s designed to supplement and connect them.