[FTC]: 2014-2015 FTC Game: Cascade Effect

New game!

Information here:
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/game

Looks really interesting.

Looks like a great new FTC challenge with lots of possibilities for scoring. The end game is also quite nice, as it puts some last minute risk into the game.

Did a bit of math, tried to come up with max score you could get (no penalties)

AUTONOMOUS- 170 POINTS
20pts - Driving from ramp to floor
30pts - Releasing kickstand
60pts - Alliance has a ball in the center goal
60pts - All three rolling goals in parking zone

TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 POINTS
27pts - 30cm goal filled
114pts - 60cm goal filled
261pts - 90cm goal filled

TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 300 POINTS
90pts - All three rolling goals on top of ramp (off playing field)
60pts - Both alliance robots on top of ramp (off playing field)
150pts - Center goal filled*

GRAND TOTAL - 872 POINTS

*this is an approximation, I couldn’t find out exactly what the max scoring limit for the central goal was in either the manual, or the video

looks like we’ll be having a lot of high scores this year

I was wondering about this. It says it is scored from the FLOOR. The bottom of the center goal is 90 cm from the floor. 90 * 6 = 540. Does this make sense? Someone should get official clarification from the FTC Forum. This could be a game changer.

The scoring for the center goal is on page 7 of the Part 2 Game Manual.

Our team was having the same discussion. I suspect this will be the first clarification on the official FTC Q&A thread.

My guess its going to be max of 180 points for the 30 cm cylinder.

Ball Height – The measurement from the bottom of the Ball Tube to the top of the uppermost Ball in the Ball Tube, i.e. the height of the stack of Balls in the Ball Tube. This is used when calculating the Score for a Goal.

6 points for each cm of Ball Height for Balls Scored In the Center Goal.

These excerpts from the game manual would seem to resolve the confusion.

I think you missed the Autonomous Ball in each of the rolling goals for 30 points each adding 90 points.

Rolling goal maximums are confirmed in the game manual on page 10.

Build guide shows 275mm tape measures for the center goal so I assume the max number of cm is 27 like the 30cm rolling goal. This means a max of 162 points for balls in the center goal.

AUTONOMOUS- 260 POINTS
20pts - Driving from ramp to floor
30pts - Releasing kickstand
60pts - Alliance has a ball in the center goal
90pts - Alliance has a ball in each rolling goal
60pts - All three rolling goals in parking zone

TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 POINTS
27pts - 30cm goal filled
114pts - 60cm goal filled
261pts - 90cm goal filled

TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 312 POINTS
90pts - All three rolling goals on top of ramp (off playing field)
60pts - Both alliance robots on top of ramp (off playing field)
162pts - Center goal filled*

GRAND TOTAL - 974 POINTS

I am thinking a unfoldable conveyor and a scoop to load the balls into the tall tube

Perhaps a hasty decision since the ruler only goes to 27.5cm, but the Game Rules and Game Play - Answer Thread #22 ups the Endgame Scoring of the Center Goal to 30cm and 180 points. That 4th ball just netted you 18 more points.

AUTONOMOUS- 260 POINTS
20pts - Driving from ramp to floor
30pts - Releasing kickstand
60pts - Alliance has a ball in the center goal
90pts - Alliance has a ball in each rolling goal
60pts - All three rolling goals in parking zone

TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 POINTS
27pts - 30cm goal filled
114pts - 60cm goal filled
261pts - 90cm goal filled

TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 330 POINTS
90pts - All three rolling goals on top of ramp (off playing field)
60pts - Both alliance robots on top of ramp (off playing field)
180pts - Center goal filled*

GRAND TOTAL - 992 POINTS

I wouldn’t be surpirsed to see scores with no penalties hit the 800+ mark.
I think we might actually see scores as high as 900 but they will be rare.

Let’s break it down…

AUTONOMOUS - 210 out of 260 POINTS, the last 50 points are very, very hard.
20pts - Driving from ramp to floor - Easy for most teams
30pts - Releasing kickstand - Easy for most teams
60pts - Alliance has a ball in the center goal - Half the teams
90pts - Alliance has a ball in each rolling goal - 1 goal, Easy, 2 goals Hard, 3 goals Very Hard
60pts - All three rolling goals in parking zone - 1 Hard, 2 goals Very Hard, 3 goals Extremely Hard

TELEOP (REGULAR) - 402 out of 402 POINTS
27pts - 30cm goal filled - Doable by a top alliance
114pts - 60cm goal filled - Doable by a top alliance
261pts - 90cm goal filled - Doable by a top alliance

TELEOP (ENDGAME) - 330 out of 330 POINTS
90pts - All three rolling goals on top of ramp (off playing field) - 1 Easy, 2 Moderate, 3 Hard
60pts - Both alliance robots on top of ramp (off playing field) - 1 Easy, 2 Easy
180pts - Center goal filled - Hard, but doable.

GRAND TOTAL - 942 out of 992 POINTS

Season High Score prediction 942 Points (before penalties)

I doubt whether even 10% of teams will score in the center goal in autonomous, because of its one-of-three, start of match, randomly chosen rotational positions.

How many teams do you really think will be able to autonomously distinguish the start of match center goal positioning correctly with I/R signal detection, and accomplish one of three (or six, depending on start point - ramp or floor) driving paths to reach an accurate enough relative position to the center goal, from which they can consistently score one ball in it?

No way half the teams will do this, not until maybe even the level of competition at World. So, I knock off 30 autonomous points for your max. scoring projection for early in the season finals match competitions, 15 points for later in the season finals, and 6 points for World’s finals.

So IMO, an alliance scoring above 200 in autonomous will be extremely rare in early qualifying competitions, very rare in state competitions, rare in super-regionals, and infrequent in world competions

-Dick Ledford

My 50% assessment for the center goal was capable not successful. I’m guessing there will be a significant percentage of robots that are not designed to lift (or shoot) a ball 120cm off the floor. I agree that in early tournaments we may only see a 10% success rate. Every robot that’s capable of lifting a ball 120+ cm should be “capable” of dropping it in the center goal. The success rate should go up quickly!

Consider a brute force strategy. Line up your robot on the mat in the center of your protected starting zone, against the perimeter wall, assuming that you will get starting configuration #3. At the start of Autonomous, drive straight forward until you engage the center structure. (Simple guides, not grasping) Raise your ball 120+ cm and drop it in. In theory, this is a 33% strategy. Even planning for mishaps, it should net 25% success.

Touch, EOPD, or Ultra Sonic sensors could easily be used to determine if you are correctly positioned. This should increase the success rate.

Now more clever teams will use that IR Beacon to help determine if they were right in their guess. If they sense that its not in position #3, they can make a decision to hold on to their ball or make a move to position #2. Then position #1.

In truth, you can do this without ever using the IR Sensor. You can do all this with just the position sensing.

This strategy should be accessible to any average or better team. Considering this is worth over 100 points, its well worth the effort. (60 points in Autonomous “plus”, another 42 points in Endgame, assuming you use the large ball)

Seems like maybe the designers were after true navigational robots? I see a lot of tasks for 30 seconds, large distances to be covered, and the probability of another robot in your path seems significant!

Another non-defensive year?

On the contrary! I think defense is going to be a factor. Any rookie team that only has a basic chassis running can play pretty effective defense this year.

In Autonomous they can drive down the ramp and hamper the other alliance going for the IR Beacon. Or they can start on the mat and prevent the other alliance going for the Rolling Goals. Or they can take up a blocking location that prevents them from moving the goals to their parking zone.

In TeleOp they can heard balls, (5 at a time), away from the other alliance. One robot can slow down two robots pretty easy if they are on the same half of the field.

In regards to the random position of the center tower, I’m wondering if teams could use something like a program chooser to select a custom routine for autonomous mode.

The Cougar Robotics team uses something like that, once their autonomous code is loaded on the nxt brick it runs code that displays a menu which allows them to select which “strategy” they want to run for that match.

Even a simple strategy like only going for the kickstand could have three variations, one for each of the three tower rotations, that would get the robot to the correct position.

That doesn’t work. From the manual (Game Manual part II, p. 9):

After Teams place their Robots on the Playing Field and pre-load the Autonomous Balls, the Referees will rotate the Center Goal into 1 of 3 random positions with respect to the Alliance Station. A pair of IR beacons are located in the middle of the Center Goal pointing outward to help teams find the Alliance-specific Center Goal. Once the Center Goal is rotated, Teams may not touch or otherwise make adjustments to the Robots (per Rule <G18>).