Fuel Seems Undercosted

Does anyone else feel that Fuel is under costed in this game?

You can put in 120 high efficiency or 360 low efficiency Fuel to get the same amount of points as one gear in teleop. (I will concede that there is one QP for Fuel that would be valuable)

Plus, would the field be able to count 360 balls in 150 seconds (full match)?

It is estimated that the field counters can handle 5 balls (fuel) per second (page 34). That would mean that 360 ball would take about 72 seconds to count.

Don’t ignore the ‘pressure’ associated with a ball, at 40 kPa you see a Ranking Point, win or lose.

Notice that the rotor has to be turning to get 40 points. So while that rate is true for the first gear, towards the end 120 fuel is equivalent in points to the 4 gears required for the last rotor.

The pilot is required to place 6 gears for the last rotor. They then have to do three rotations of the first gear, which might be harder than some people think.

Just because a task closely resembles the “main” task of old games, doesn’t mean it’s the “main” task of this one.

Also, fuel has an effectively infinite scoring potential, whereas gears are finite. True, the gears limit is relatively high and will take many alliances the full match or more to reach, but others will be able to finish them off with plenty of time to spare. In these matches, where both alliances do this, fuel will be the difference maker.

Additionally, there’s two very key differences between fuel and most recent shooting tasks: the ball is tiny compared to the robot, and storage is unlimited. Unlike recent games, and especially unlike last year, where you had to make every shot count, pure rate of fire is arguably more important than actual accuracy, and the size difference opens up some interesting possible ways to make this happen.

Can anyone find a rule on how much fuel one robot can carry? Please link a rule where you found the answer

There is no limit

Where did you find that? I’m telling my team this but I cant find it in the rules

The fact that you cannot find a limit in the rules is the indicator that the limit is not there.

Also, I believe this was mentioned specifically in the Kickoff stream, I want to say in Blair’s segment.

It was said during the live webcast, you can watch a VOD of that, it isn’t in the rules because it would only need to mention it if there was a limit. There’s is a theoretical limit due to the volume constraints on the robot but other than that there is none.

Since the boiler takes about 2 seconds to process fuel, the following questions are:

What is the boiler’s capacity?

Are there separate counters for top and bottom?

The fuel is recycled onto the field so capacity is essentially infinite.

I’d assume so since they are scored differently.

I was wondering, can someone point to me the rule that states only one gear at a time in teleop? Also anyone up for discussing strategy? I’m stuck in a longggg car ride and wanna bounce some ideas.

A search for “gear” in the rules found this in about 10 seconds:

G27. One-GEAR limit. ROBOTS may not control more than one GEAR at a time.
Violation: FOUL. If strategic, TECH FOUL and YELLOW CARD.

Where are you pulling this from? The boiler goals process 4-5 Fuel per second as stated during the webcast.

Yes but you can calculate the top amount of fuel that can be processed and even then in perfect conditions accuracy and speed it is marginally better than gears.

No, but how much overflow can the boiler handle (say if you shoot at >5 fuel/sec)?

I think this depends on the geometry of the funnel. I can’t find it in the field drawings, but it would be nice to see someone calculate the maximum possible number of fuel.

As my team discussed this topic, it was brought up that if scoring gears has the most point potential, why wouldn’t everyone do it? The answer seems to be that gearing is an intimidating task that may prove to be much more difficult than previously thought.

On the other hand, dumping fuel to achieve the boiler ranking point is comparatively less difficult. However, the big thing we seemed to realize was that while scoring ranking points via fuel may get you to playoffs, it just isn’t enough to win playoffs against teams scoring ranking points via gears. A gearing ranking point is worth 100 pts, while the fuel point translates to 20 points; leaving a gap of 80 points at the very least, which would be extremely difficult to overcome by only scoring fuel.

While it may seem undercosted point wise, strategy will be crucial as fuel provides a comparatively easier way to rack up ranking points, which is what really matters in terms of your shot at playoffs if you may not be able to always win matches point wise (similar to breaching the defenses last year)