Full Grids

Here is a list of matches where an alliance filled the grid. This has happened 44 times so far. There have been no matches where both alliances filled the grid.

Team1 Team2 Team3 TBA link
7042 7157 4414 Finals 2 - Aerospace Valley Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
3189 1678 254 Match 7 - Sacramento Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
3970 971 1323 Quals 6 - Monterey Bay Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
254 2489 1678 Finals 1 - Silicon Valley Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
254 100 1678 Finals 2 - Silicon Valley Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
599 8840 254 Quals 45 - Silicon Valley Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
254 100 1678 Match 11 - Silicon Valley Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
254 100 1678 Match 1 - Silicon Valley Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
1629 422 1731 Quals 71 - FIRST Chesapeake District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
1731 2363 2199 Match 11 - FIRST Chesapeake District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
4099 401 614 Match 2 - FIRST Chesapeake District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
4270 7632 4613 Quals 16 - Hawaii Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
226 51 818 Finals 1 - FIRST in Michigan State Championship presented by DTE Foundation 2023 - The Blue Alliance
226 51 818 Match 2 - FIRST in Michigan State Championship presented by DTE Foundation 2023 - The Blue Alliance
6078 1718 2075 Quals 41 - FIRST in Michigan State Championship presented by DTE Foundation - DTE ENERGY FOUNDATION Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
4381 3538 7166 Quals 29 - FIRST in Michigan State Championship presented by DTE Foundation - FORD Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
6090 4381 1506 Quals 38 - FIRST in Michigan State Championship presented by DTE Foundation - FORD Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
3414 3538 4391 Quals 45 - FIRST in Michigan State Championship presented by DTE Foundation - FORD Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
2767 201 3357 Finals 3 - FIRST in Michigan State Championship presented by DTE Foundation - APTIV Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
33 67 2767 Quals 75 - FIRST in Michigan State Championship presented by DTE Foundation - APTIV Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
2539 1923 484 Finals 2 - FIRST Mid-Atlantic District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
3314 5895 3142 Finals 3 - FIRST Mid-Atlantic District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
1757 1699 176 Finals 3 - New England FIRST District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
319 6324 195 Quals 70 - New England FIRST District Championship - MEIR Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
133 125 6763 Quals 71 - New England FIRST District Championship - MEIR Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
8085 195 4564 Match 7 - New England FIRST District Championship - MEIR Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
987 6560 4270 Quals 43 - Las Vegas Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance
4946 8729 4678 Finals 2 - FIRST Ontario Provincial Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
9098 3683 3161 Quals 22 - FIRST Ontario Provincial Championship - TECHNOLOGY Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
1241 1325 2200 Quals 15 - ONT District McMaster University 2023 - The Blue Alliance
2056 4343 2200 Quals 35 - ONT District McMaster University 2023 - The Blue Alliance
4992 1325 2056 Match 11 - ONT District McMaster University 2023 - The Blue Alliance
2147 2910 360 Quals 50 - Pacific Northwest FIRST District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
2910 1983 2046 Quals 82 - Pacific Northwest FIRST District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
2046 2910 1983 Match 12 - Pacific Northwest FIRST District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
7461 4915 3663 Match 8 - Pacific Northwest FIRST District Championship 2023 - The Blue Alliance
118 8576 3005 Finals 1 - FIRST In Texas District Championship presented by Phillips 66 2023 - The Blue Alliance
3679 2468 6672 Finals 2 - FIRST In Texas District Championship presented by Phillips 66 - APOLLO Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
5414 6672 6377 Quals 50 - FIRST In Texas District Championship presented by Phillips 66 - APOLLO Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
118 8576 3005 Finals 1 - FIRST In Texas District Championship presented by Phillips 66 - MERCURY Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
3310 118 2158 Quals 22 - FIRST In Texas District Championship presented by Phillips 66 - MERCURY Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
118 148 3005 Quals 71 - FIRST In Texas District Championship presented by Phillips 66 - MERCURY Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
118 8576 3005 Match 11 - FIRST In Texas District Championship presented by Phillips 66 - MERCURY Division 2023 - The Blue Alliance
5586 111 2338 Match 7 - Seven Rivers Regional 2023 - The Blue Alliance

The following teams have filled the grid more than once:

Team Full Grids
254 6
1678 5
118 5
3005 4
100 3
2910 3
8576 3
1731 2
4270 2
226 2
51 2
818 2
4381 2
3538 2
2767 2
195 2
1325 2
2200 2
2056 2
1983 2
2046 2
6672 2

Congratulations to all of these teams!

47 Likes

Getting some likes on this post but no replies so I’ll pose a question:

What are some formulas for full grids?

Taking advantage of the new supercharged rules requires a full grid, so it might be cool figure out the different ways it can be done. My team has only been involved in one full grid so I can only speak for a single data point. At FMA Champs we got very lucky in alliance selections and ended up with some very fast cyclers. The formula for a full grid was as follows:

3314: 10 pieces placed, mostly mid and high, start filling from bump side
5895: 10 pieces placed, mostly mid and high, start filling from non bump side
3142: 7 pieces placed, mostly low, cycle over the charge station if lanes are full, try to stay out of alliance partners’ way so they can cycle faster, try to mess with opponents

So you can see we had some considerations. Do you think these considerations are important? Specifically:

  • Is designating specific lanes (non bump side, over the charge station, bump side) important for filling the grid? If so, should the lane assignments be rigid or flexible?
  • Is having a designated low hybrid node scorer important for filling the grid, or is it better to construct a flexible alliance where all three robots can score high, mid, and low?
  • When going for a grid fill, is it worth going over how much opportunistic defense can be played? Is it worth designating a robot to play a little defense here and there while the other two can focus entirely on cycling?

Finally, what are some other considerations that can affect whether an alliance can fill the grid?

Interesting, but perhaps not quite the complete story. We had a couple of matches where we were 1 or 2 hybrid from filling the grid, but our alliance switched tactics to take extra time to insure an end game balance to lock down that RP as that was far more valuable than the “bragging point” of a full grid (and 1 or 2 pts). Other alliances seemed to make a similar decision in this situation. This calculus has now changed.

1 Like

I did a bunch of analysis on this… here’s what I learned! This was written before the team update so there’s some focus on the former max score of 193 points.


  • First filled grid in week 4 by 4270-7632-4613 with a total score of 173 points
  • 2 fill grids in week 4, 7 in week 5, and 35 in week 6

Grid Filling Alliance Data:

  • Average Grid Filling Alliance by EPA World Rankings:
    • Robot 1: Rank 28
    • Robot 2: Rank 117
    • Robot 3: Rank 633
  • Only a single alliance has filled a grid without any teams ranked inside the top 100 EPA
  • 36/44 Filled Grids were done by alliances where the top 2 robots were both in the top 100 in the world, or the top robot on the alliance was in the top 20
    • Of the remaining 8 filled grids, all but one had a 3rd robot ranked inside the top 500
  • 20 Grids filled in “Stacked Qual Matches”
  • 12 Filled Grids in Double Elim Bracket
  • 12 Filled Grids in Finals

EPA World Ranking Notes:

  • In an ideal scenario, which isn’t actually the case at Champs…
  • Ranks 1-16 = #1 Alliance Captain/1st Pick at Champs
  • Ranks 17-128 = 1st Round Pick/Alliance Captain at Champs
  • Ranks 129-192 = 2nd Round Picks at Champs
  • Ranks 193-256 = Backup Robots at Champs

Grid FIlling Lessons Learned:

  • Filled grid capability essentially requires one of the following alliance compositions:
    • An alliance with 2 robots ranked in the top 100 in EPA
    • A top 20 robot in the world with either another top 200 robot or two top 400 robots
    • An alliance with all 3 robots ranked inside the top 350
  • There’s a difference between filling grids and filling grids consistently
    • The only alliances that filled multiple grids all contained a top 20 ranked team or better paired with another top tier partner (1678/254 118/3005 2910/2046)
  • Filling the Grid is not the most difficult part of scoring 193 points

Autonomous Notes

What Does this all Mean?

  • There will be filled grids in quals at champs, but they will remain the exception, not the rule - almost certainly there won’t be a 193 match in quals as the autos need to align perfectly
  • Some Champs playoff alliances won’t be capable of filling the grid at all, and they will lose early
  • Many Champs alliances will be capable of filling a grid, but not consistently - these alliances will need good fortune to make it to division finals
    • Some of these alliances will luck their way into Einstein
  • The best Champs Alliances will consistently fill the grid with 6-7 scored in auto each time
    • Expect these alliances to draft their third robot with a strong emphasis on auto compatibility to unlock 7 game pieces + 3 mobility autos
    • I anticipate 1-2 alliances like this on each field, maybe 3 on a particularly strong field
    • Most Einstein Alliances will fit this description
  • It’s relatively unlikely that we see a 193-193 match before late in the division playoffs/Einstein, and even then we might not see one
13 Likes

I think it is essential to have either lane assignments or a circulation plan like: always enter via the open lane, move as far down as you can score, score, and then exit over either the station or bump.

That was our filled grid match. In auto, our alliance permanently stuck a cube high on the grid in an unscored location and pushed another pre-staged cube directly into an opponent’s intake. This meant we had to do 2 more full cycles from the loading station.

On the plus side, this cemented us at the top of the “Highest Teleop Scores” table, because apparently that’s a thing on Statbotics…
image

1 Like

Hell yeah, rank 760 bay-beee

2 Likes

oops

1 Like

I can share what we ( 51, 818,and 226) did as an alliance both in the Consumers Division and on FiMstein.

Our alliance actually worked super well together from a robot perspective. 51 could grab from the ground and single substation/chute, 818 could only do the double substations/shelves, and 226 could do shelves or ground. Since we cover a little bit of everything (i.e. we are not 3 shelf bots) we are able to manage traffic in the loading station well. We also tried to set up our driver stations in a way to optimize traffic flow, 818 was in front of the clear side where our 3 piece auton ran and gave a clear path to get back to the shelf fast, 51 took the middle station to support scoring mid/high anywhere on the grid and 226 took the bump side station since they had practice filling the low row from previous matches/competitions.

As a strategy, we decided that 51 and 818 would finish the top row after auton and start working towards mid, while 226 would be filling the low row themselves.

After auton, there would be 1-2 cubes left on the ground depending on if our autons would hit. 818 would make a run for the shelves and 51 would run for the chute. 226 would grab cubes from the ground to desync themselves from the cycle so that way all 3 of us don’t go to get a piece at once. Since 226 is primarily grabbing from the ground, this left 818 both shelves and we could stage a cone and cube on each to avoid communication delays in what we need to the human player.

From there is was simply playing “heads up robots” where our drivers are watching to see who’s coming in and going out to keep the flow going on the community side, and sticking to our various stations in the loading zone to keep the congestion down. The drive coaches all worked together well asking what pieces we needed where and then feeding that back to drivers and operators to avoid grabbing 2 cones when we need 1 cone and 1 cube and wasting a cycle.

One note to make is that we only filled the grid against the Ford alliance on FiMstein and this is because both our alliances were focused solely on scoring in the matches, they really were just going to be a shootout. On Consumers and against Aptiv we were met with much more opportunistic defense which adds congestion and caused us to sync back up in our cycles.

Overall, the key lessons learned for me at least is to have variety in where robots can get pieces from, try to desync cycles so it’s not 3 robots in and 3 robots out, and talk to your partners on who’s getting what game piece for what node so that no cycles are wasted.

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I’ll also note that in the FIMstein finals match 1, we missed having both grids full by literally half an inch, since blue’s last hybrid cone was in place but the tip was just outside the tape. That match was indeed 100% offense on both sides, and everyone cycled nearly perfectly.

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hey that’s us :slight_smile:, but I could have sworn that Fresta Valley (1731) was ranked above us, but when I checked they weren’t. Thank you for the analysis!

Annnnnd, the 1st alliance to do it was a Hawaii team, a Taiwan team and an Australian team at the Hawaii regional. :call_me_hand:

9 Likes

I am curious to see how many perfect games have been played (where an alliance gets max game pieces in auto, balance in auto, full grid, 3 balanced endgame)

How many filled grids ended up in a loss?

At least 1… didn’t track that closely though.

M12 at PNW Champs featured the #1 seed vs #8 seed and was one game piece away from a double full grid:

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I don’t believe there were any official matches. It happened once in a practice match. The Quest for the Perfect 193 (High Scores 2023) thread has been tracking high scores.

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