When thinking about strategy our team came up with an interesting question. Is it better to try to breach (pass through a defense twice) a single defense before moving on to the next, or pass through each defense once to get the first passover points before going for the full breach?
Thoughts?
Is this from the perspective on alliance or a single robot? If per-robot, I might start on the defenses that are harder for my partners. Also, am I shooting boulders into the tower after crossing?
If you damage a single defense (cross twice consecutively) you might not have to turn and move to a different defense, instead just crossing, returning, crossing, and returning again, then moving sideways to the next one.
I feel that if you are planning on going for the breach (and your allies are not assisting) going over, back, and over again is more efficient, especially for the driving challenges. This means you don’t need to line yourself up again, as long as your robot is capable of going over both ways.
You get points for crossing a defense the second time, just not the third. So it really is just a matter of which undamaged defense is most convenient to cross.
Also, just to clarify terminology, because it is actually very important to understanding the rules:
The general goal that I think most teams will want to achieve is scoring 1 boulder per defense cross. This way they can get 8 boulders scored while damaging 4 outer works. If their teammates help them, then they will easily do it. But otherwise, it is a difficult goal but possible. These efficient cycles will definitely help an alliance win and increase your ranking points.
You will have to wait until Champs to get Passover points. Or at least the Friday before… :]
It depends on your robot configuration and your alliance partners. If your robot is able to cross a defense both ways with equal ease, doing a triple (or quadruple) traversal to damage the defense is probably the most efficient as it reduces the need to maneuver. With defenses that your robot must pass in one direction or the other, you need to figure out whether it’s quicker to pivot 180 degrees or steer over a bit and “back” over another (probably adjacent) defense. Which is quicker is a function of defense placement and your specific drive train. When you factor in an alliance partner who is also breaching, the dynamic shifts again.
As also noted above, unless you are the lone sapper 'bot on your alliance and are just driving hard for the ranking point, you’ll probably want to bring boulders with you on many of your defense crossings.
The first and second passes of defenses are absolutely equivalent. Proof? You earn an equal number of points on both crossings. You cannot create a breach without BOTH crosses on 4 defenses. Assuming you score (or hand off) a boulder during the crossing, you will always get the boulder to the courtyard regardless of the first or second cross.
You start losing efficiency when you cross defenses for the third time. Now you are earning no crossing points, where crossing a different defense for the first or second time would be earning points and advancing towards the breach. As long as you are crossing an UNDAMAGED defense (zero or one cross only), then you are advancing the strategic agenda equally. After all, both crosses must happen on four defenses in order for a breach to happen.
Now that the theoretical stuff is over, time for the practical stuff.
(Hopefully) three robots will be crossing defenses throughout the match. Say that your two alliance partners combined will be crossing the B and D defenses and the low bar. Then, you would want to cross the A and C defenses first, if possible. If you crossed the low bar (for example) first, then one of your alliances partners would be crossing the low bar for no points, which is a waste. In general, you want to make sure that all three robots are crossing undamaged defenses for as long as possible. After you can no longer do so, then choose to cross the quickest defenses after that point.
To answer your original question, the only thing you would be saving by choosing a specific order of defense crossing would be the time for your robot to move around the field. Strategically, there is no difference since every single cross is necessary at some point in the match in order to achieve the breach.
You only need to damage **four **defenses to achieve a breach. Crossing and damaging the fifth defense is still worth the 5 points per crossing for the first two crossings (10 in auto), but does not affect the breach.
Sorry for the lack of clarification, I was kind of just referencing the 8 required crosses. That being said, an alliance that crosses all 10 will have a better shot at winning…
IMHO, each team should pick the defense that they are best capable of handling, and do it twice. “Best” being an alliance wide decision. For example, Portcullis may be at the bottom of your list, but you may be the only robot in the alliance that can do it.
Exception: If your bot is the only one in your alliance that can defeat Defense #5, AND things are going swimmingly, then your bot can skip 2 and 3, and go to 5. In essence, you are trusting your team (after they have proven themselves, and things are going swimmingly) to finish defeating the first 4 defenses, and you spend your time with the one they can’t do.
Note: The best shooting robot that is also fast and can easily pick up Boulders should be assigned the quickest defense. Their job will be to score shooting points while the other two are busy crossing defenses.
I would say first breach the defenses your alliance partners can’t do. Cross 'em twice. In the meantime, if your partners are shooting, they will have to cross something, so it will wear the easy defenses down (save time for you). Finish off the defenses that need to be done after that.
Also, remember that even if no single robot can cross the category C (door) defenses, two robots with functional drive trains working together can do so. Three can damage it. Decide before the match if this is necessary and when it will happen.
Why would you need 3 robots to damage it? I think 2 could easily do it by themselves in a single trip.
Not if they don’t have the manipulation required
Choosing which defenses to do first will boil down to cycle disruption. If the alliance is more efficient at cycling, you want to do the defenses your opponents are least likely to be near so they do not impede you. If the alliance is less efficient at cycling, then you will want to do the defenses your opponents are close to in order to impede their cycles.
Choosing where to put your defenses can help or hinder this, but I don’t know which until after the first couple of weeks. If you put the defenses that have the hardest time with close to where you are more likely to be, the other alliance may choose to ignore it, or they may attempt it and take so long they’re in your way. On the other hand, if you put their most efficient defenses where you’re likely to be, they may damage that defense early and then spend the rest of their time elsewhere, leaving you alone. In elims I think this will be all opportunistic. Yet none of this logic is possible without scouting.
One robot1 pushes the door down from the back, lets robot2 onto door. Robot1 drives of the door into the neutral zone then back onto the door. Robot1 and robot2 cross into the courtyard.
Defense damaged. No manipulator.
You assume that the refs will be able to watch closely enough to have that count every time. While I have great faith in our ref crews, they aren’t Heimdall.
Two could certainly do it by themselves w/o some sort of manipulator.
Take the drawbridge for example.
Robot A on its way back from scoring a boulder or damaging/weakening another defense returns to the courtyard via the drawbridge. On the way out the take a 90 degree turn that leaves their right rear wheel on the bridge.
Robot B then approaches the bridge from the other side and places its right front wheel on it.
Robot A then proceeds off of the bridge while robot B starts its crossing.
Robot B stops when it is still holding the bridge down while Robot A having broken contact with the defense then continues through behind Robot B.
Personally I don’t think that is the best way to go as I would want to carry a boulder on each crossing.
Also having robot C, hopefully with possession of a boulder, being ready to follow Robot B would probably be quicker than the maneuvering required of robot A who would likely not have a boulder yet.
I also believe that the Sally Port and Drawbridge are top choices for returning from the courtyard and thus will provide enough opportunity to allow holding the door on two separate trips so the robot that has the door held for them always has a boulder.
However with time running out and fully damaging the Drawbridge or Sally Port is all that is required to finish the breach (and maybe with one robot down) then that may be the way to go.
What’s to watch? As long as you make it perfectly clear that you are not touching the door anymore it’s not hard to see. Especially if someone else is holding the door down.