Game breaker: The triple level 3 HAB


#1

Anyone thinking of attempting a triple, level 3 HAB? Per G23, robots in the HAB may violate R25 in the habitable zone, so extending downwards is league.
I truly hope someone considers a triple hang using two 148 (2018) style robot grabbers or two under the robot lift bars as seen in 2018 triple hangs.
Would be epic.


#2

Our team is not even considering the third level, we would like to do the second level, or possibly make an assist for another robot, but even thinking of ways to climb the second level is challenging enough.


#3

we’re thinking about it…


#4

Not much of a game breaker. 36 points and one ranking point isn’t going to break the game.

Usually a game breaker is defined as a robot that WILL win the match, less lots of bad luck, every time.


#5

If you can do that every time then 36 points will help a lot.


#6

I’m not saying it won’t help. But consider that a max score is 154, and you’re only scoring 36 of those. 118 points still on the table… and your opponents may find it worth dedicating a defender to keep you out of the Hab Zone. Interesting strategy, and a viable robot, I’ll give. But declaring it as a game breaker? Nope.


#7

I second the motion. A defensive strategy to impede the access to their HAB by the three-bot climber will not be too difficult to implement, especially considering that same bot will likely be the one going after the full Rocket Ship.


#8

36 points is equivalent to between 12 and 18 cycles depending on game piece scored. If you are assuming that opposing alliance can do 18 points in the HAB the it is still the difference of 6-9 cycles more points that your alliance would get. That’s like saying each robot on your alliance is doing 2 extra cycles a match.


#9

I’ll note its only a 18 points achievement for boosting partners up for a triple L3 as you can go up anyhow and the worst your partners would have been is on level 1.

And often only a 12 or 15 points if they could get to L2.

Meanwhile you’re removing all 3 robots away from scoring cargo and hatches for the 30-60 seconds it takes to coordinate all of this.


#10

I’d love to see info on how much the average robot deflected off the robot wrangler, there would need to be minimum deflection to avoid interference with level 2. Also not sure if you could wrangle only 1 robot and still lift legally.


#11

I feel it would be worth it only if you can climb in under ten seconds (after team gets on), which I think is doable if done right.


#12

If I personally made a bot, it would be a low bot that scores with the low hatch panels and gets 20-30 pts before endgame, but in the last 20 seconds (when you can’t be touched, it drops down forks (or something) and climbs with two teammates to the third level. This would leave it with a total of 55-65 points total.


#13

36 seems to be a huge game changer. Most teams are predicting 25-75ish points at max according to the scoring feed predictions here. Majority are predicting 25-50 though, with 1 robot on level 2 on the hab at start & end.


#14

Here’s the thing, and what you ALL seem to be missing.

Read the title: “Game breaker: The triple level 3 HAB”

When I see “Game Breaker”, I define it like 469 in 2010. Or for folks my age, 71 in 2002. Teams that could literally win a match without help and there was nothing you could do to stop it except watch in awe and horror and pray something screwed up (like a partner got stuck in a goal).

36 points is a big deal–at a regional level, especially in the early season. But 36 easily-blockable points, in a game where a competent alliance should be putting up quite a bit more? That isn’t a game breaker. That’s a big point opportunity, worth looking into and thinking about and possibly doing. And it’s big enough that if I know you’re going to try it and I’ve got a defender, I’m taking that risk and sending that defender to make sure that you never have a chance to use it. As long as I can keep you out of the HAB zone, or keep one or both of your partners out, I have negated your advantage or even gained the upper hand in HAB points. OTOH, if I have one of those robots on my side, I’m assigning the other robots to watch for defense and play counter-defense.


#15

I don’t understand how the 36 points are “easily blockable” as the final 20 seconds block the enemy team from being in your hab zone, and I believe they get fouls if they touch you in your hab zone/touch your teammates in the final 20 seconds. (I’d feel it is basically not possible to block, as long as we can climb in the final 10 seconds) What you were saying about counter defense is a good point, I would have to plan ahead with alliance partners to defend well…

I agree its definitely not a game breaker, a viable strategy though… Also, everyone keeps saying that 36 points out of 154 leaves 118 points on the table, this ignores the fact that you might be scoring during that time, so you could add 20-30 points to the total, getting 55-60 points is a big chunk of 154 (1/3), so I see this as a viable strategy if done right. Still, it is important to discuss flaws in the strategy/my reasoning so an ineffective bot is not built…


#16

I mean it is a fifth of your max points…


#17

You don’t have to be in the hab zone in the last 20 seconds to defend this strategy.

You have to make sure that the robot, that had to leave the hab zone to get the points, can’t get back in there. This is a whole-match defense, but seeing as you’re over there you may as well hassle everybody but that team specifically.


#18

Pneumatic wheels can do the trick. Go at a fast speed and it should get a lift from the angle of the platform amd be on the edge of HAB lv2.


#19

Given the low success rate of “buddy climbs” last year (specifically, the kind that had one robot lifting another) with just one other robot, and given the increased complexity of this years climb, not to mention the expansion restrictions, I find it highly unlikely that more than a handful of teams will manage to pull this off.

You might see a few of them happen here and there, but even robots that successfully attempt this will likely have a very high failure rate match to match, simply due to the other two robots, if nothing else.


#20

I Believe we are not considering a bot that goes onto Level 3 of the HAB Zone, as we possibly see it as Impossible or, Absurdly difficult.