Gears on the floor?

FIRST General Forum
#1

I wonder how many gears we’ll see on the carpet? Dropped while loading or trying to place on the axles? Or getting knocked out of bots by hard impacts?

Will they get in the way? Cause robots to get high-centered?

Is it worthwhile to build a device to pick gears off the floor? This could save a lot of time running back & fourth across the field, but the design would be a major challenge, considering the new robot envelopes rule.

#2

My own answers:

  1. Double-digits per event.
  2. Both.
  3. Probably.
  4. Only if they’re at the chutes or right at the lifts, where they can jam against the wall.
  5. Unlikely, given the bumper zone. But never say never.
  6. Iron Kings labeled it Expert Mode on their priority list (something that we really want to pursue, but don’t want to lock ourselves into if it severely compromises other functionality). I think others will make it happen too.
#3

Same here. 3946 has this as a priority 2 item, which means about the same thing.

I expect dropped gears to be more common in quals than eliminations unless it’s due to defense, e.g. “forced fumbles”.

#4

Agreed with 1-5. 811 put a Prototype Team on it, and we think we have something that will work.

#5

Honest question:
Why bother? There are 22 gears available to each team (not counting the presets) and 13 places to put them. If a gear is on the ground, why make a mechanism to manipulate it when there are nine teammate-controlled extras?

#6

It would be my advice for anyone interested to possibly look back to 2013 for a bit of quick inspiration for floor intake designs.

#7

We came to the conclusion that we don’t need to pickup gears on the floor since there are plenty at the feeder station. You have 10 more gears than you need to get all 4 rotors going. (18 start + 3 preload + 1 in the airship = 22 gears) so even if you drop almost half of your available gears on the floor, you still have enough gears behind the wall to get your RP

#8

The two questions I have for whether gears off the ground is a viable idea are:
A) How many gears do you imagine are going to be on the ground? and
B) Is your ground gear system faster than driving back to the load station?

#9

There are many ways of accomplishing the same task. If you can pick up off the floor, then you have the capabilities of grabbing your opponents dropped gears as well, instead of trying to traverse the field for them.

#10

The only reason I can think of is in case it falls in a really awkward area and you’re having trouble pushing it away, but I’m not too sure how often that would happen (if at all).

#11

Because there may be a gear that isn’t 50-60 feet away from me.

(Alternatively, because that might just be the fastest way to get control of one from the chute.)

#12

I think this is the most strategically important reason to be able to pick them up. If an opponent fumbles a gear at their chute (maybe because of well timed defense) then you can grab it and take it right to your own lift.

#13

Unless the opponents tag you in their loading zone…

#14

I’m picturing the opponent tries for a gear, drops it. Grabs another, takes off for their lift. You swoop in, kick it out of their loading zone, push it along the floor and finish intaking it outside the zone.

#15

Having an intake for floor gears is the only way to get a 120 point autonomous. That’s maybe a decent reason to pursue it. Maybe.

#16

Also, ground intakes may have a quicker cycle time depending on the driver. If there’s a gear on the floor outside of the loading station, the robot does not need to line up correctly with the chute. Instead it can, like a ball, just drive up to the gear laying on the floor. The time efficiency would range depending on drivers, but when you need 12 gears any time saving will help.

#17

Yes. Especially if there are many of them in one area.

Yes. I foresee a large number of robots with low ground clearance this year.

Yes. It is almost always worthwhile to have the option to pick up a game piece off the floor.

Maybe. With a little creativity I think that the size restrictions can be worked around without too much complexity. You are only saving time if the floor pickup you design is faster than your cycle times. Don’t bother picking up off of the floor if it is going to take you half the match to do it.

#18

I’m picturing lurking just out of sight behind the airship and swooping in to tag drivers who are preoccupied with the bait gear on the floor :slight_smile:

#19

Gears on the floor could be an alliance strategy, where a great gear handler from the floor gets gears delivered to them by their partners. Of course, once they are on the ground, the opponents can play defense on them but they are harder to clear away than balls and they can only possess one at a time. Getting as many as possible to your side (even on the ground) and having a good pickup and placement mechanism would make it feasible for a single robot to place 12 gears if their partners were delivering them to the launchpad area.

I imagine you’d have 3 gears on robots and the reserve to start. At least one would be scored in auto and any left at the start of teleop would be dumped in the launchpad. Then all 3 robots would go for 3 more gears (and fuel). At that point, the gear handler would have 5 gears to place bringing the total to 7. Repeat this twice more (or 3x with 2 robots) and you’d be at 13.

#20

Keep in mind a good gear floor pickup greatly decreases travel time to acquire a gear and you need 12 for RP. it takes a while with across field vision to even obtain a gear. Would be much better to scoop fallen ones closer up. Plus greatly eases load time no line up needed human just drops gear on floor robot gets… I think floor pickup of gears is a must due to cycle times for top gear bots considering driver station views, distance, defense and the rest. bots that just have passive gear collection will struggle IMO