GLR or MWR

Posted by Bill Beatty at 03/14/2001 12:10 AM EST

Other on team #71, Team Hammond, from Team Hammond.

I think 700 is a given, and I wouldn’t be all that shocked to see a 800. We shall see.

Posted by soap108 at 03/14/2001 12:32 AM EST

Engineer on team #108, SigmaC@T, from Dillard & Taravella HS and Motorola.

In Reply to: GLR or MWR
Posted by Bill Beatty on 03/14/2001 12:10 AM EST:

Bill-
Your alliance was 3 seconds from 710 (if i recall correctly) in the SF1 matches. I expect to see at least this in IL…No Pressure, though :wink:

It seems the 12X multi is reachable, but not with many base points.

(I know, there’s several routes to 800, here’s one:)
10X is usually reachable, but getting 80 points would require 4 Endzone, 2 big, 20 small. Swapping a stretcher for 10 small is very likely scenario.

I haven’t seen this yet…a Great far-side small ball collector/scorer…hope those 108 students & engineers get ours working effieciently… might be just the 'bot needed for those higher scores…hint hint :slight_smile:

8X is very reachable. 100 base points might not be too hard if the right robots are there, but getting less base points in a faster time is usually more advantageous (as your alliance showed in getting the 620 in the Finals…

Oh well,
Just more food for thought,
KA

: I think 700 is a given, and I wouldn’t be all that shocked to see a 800. We shall see.

Posted by bill whitley at 03/14/2001 11:53 AM EST

Student on team #70, Auto City Bandits, from Powers Catholic High School and Kettering University.

In Reply to: Hi QP Re: GLR or MWR
Posted by soap108 on 03/14/2001 12:32 AM EST:

I doubt we will ever see an 800 point match at any regional or at nationals. I don’t know of any regional which will have enough specialized teams to do it (though MWR I think has the best chance) and at nationals divisions will prevent any hopes of having such lofty goals. However I can envision an alliance that could score upwards of 800 points. But I think 820 (maybe 830) is the limit. (stretcher, 4 in ez, 2 big, 12 (maybe 13) small, 2 goals balanced in under a minute) I think this is an outside possibility. A team such as 45 has the power and traction to tow the stretcher over with relative ease. A team such as team 1 has the reach to pickup & score a big ball from the stretcher. If this was put together with someone like 71 or 111, I think 800 could happen.

I think that 700 could fall this weekend. The major players necessary are at MWR we will have to see how the supporting cast fills in. I expect MWR to have higher scores than GLR as I do not know of any teams at GLR that can efficiently balance 2 goals from off the bridge. However, nobody really knew that 71 would be so effiecient at it either. Maybe someone else will come out of the woodwork at GLR.

As for the scoring changes, any change making the strecther with more points, (20 for stretcher, or stretcher + 4 bots) would make 800 much more attainable.

Bill
Team #70

Posted by Michael Betts at 03/14/2001 12:27 PM EST

Engineer on team #177, Bobcat Robotics, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells.

In Reply to: 800? not likely
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 11:53 AM EST:

: I doubt we will ever see an 800 point match at any regional or at nationals.

Bill,

I disagree. Mr. Beatty is correct. 800 will fall.

I can think of more than a few potential alliances which could do it.

Remember also that teams are going to become more effective by the end of the nationals. They will have more experience and will be less likely to over-promote themselves.

In the end, it will not be the best 'bots which win this year. It will be superior teamwork within an alliance.

Mike

Posted by bill whitley at 03/14/2001 7:24 PM EST

Student on team #70, Auto City Bandits, from Powers Catholic High School and Kettering University.

In Reply to: Re: 800? Way!
Posted by Michael Betts on 03/14/2001 12:27 PM EST:

Who wants a piece of this action?
I bet a coke, or dew, that says 800 does not fall.

Bill
Team #70

Posted by mike oleary at 03/14/2001 8:19 PM EST

Student on team #419, rambots, from bc high and sponsors are overrated…go pocket-change robots!!!.

In Reply to: I got a coke that says 800 doesnt fall.
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 7:24 PM EST:

ill bet you a dew…theres definately gonna be an 800, but probably not till finals

: Who wants a piece of this action?
: I bet a coke, or dew, that says 800 does not fall.

: Bill
: Team #70

Posted by soap108 at 03/14/2001 11:34 PM EST

Engineer on team #108, SigmaC@T, from Dillard & Taravella HS and Motorola.

In Reply to: Re: I got a coke that says 800 doesnt fall.
Posted by mike oleary on 03/14/2001 8:19 PM EST:

Never explicitly said 800 had to be in the Elim rounds… I takes 727 + 10% bonus + rounding up to nearest point to get to 800 in the qualifying rounds…

I beleive 727 is an impossible number so let’s say 730…that shouldn’t be too hard given the ‘right’ teams…if they ever get ‘randomly’ paired that is…

p.s. Only 31 teams at IL…hmmmm, is that good or bad?

p.p.s Any chance of getting those ridiculous water bottle prices to drop…sheesh! BYOH20!

Later,
KA - 108 ;~)

Posted by Michael Betts at 03/15/2001 9:21 AM EST

Engineer on team #177, Bobcat Robotics, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells.

In Reply to: I got a coke that says 800 doesnt fall.
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 7:24 PM EST:

: Who wants a piece of this action?
: I bet a coke, or dew, that says 800 does not fall.

: Bill
: Team #70

Bill,

You are on Kind Sir!

See you in FL…

Mike, Team 177

Posted by Raul at 03/14/2001 8:18 AM EST

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

In Reply to: GLR or MWR
Posted by Bill Beatty on 03/14/2001 12:10 AM EST:

OK Bill, stop trying to psych us out.

I would be shocked to see an 800 score (without big ball bonus). How does one get 80 points in less than 60 seconds? Think about it carefully. If you use the stretcher, not only does it take more time to push it across, it negates the use of one robot that is needed to do some valuable functions. To get more than a few small balls into the far goal will take up too much time. No one could process (pick up and deposit) small balls from the floor faster than us last year and we could not do 8 balls any faster than 25 seconds

I also predict it is unlikely to reach the 700 barrier without limbo-bots. We almost did 620 without a limbo-bot, but 700 is unlikely without 1 or 2.

Raul

: I think 700 is a given, and I wouldn’t be all that shocked to see a 800. We shall see.

Posted by Bill Beatty at 03/14/2001 10:42 AM EST

Other on team #71, Team Hammond, from Team Hammond.

In Reply to: Re: GLR or MWR
Posted by Raul on 03/14/2001 8:18 AM EST:

Ok, so I exaggerated a bit. But how about a 792? That last 8 points is tough! I think it can and will happen soon.

BTW. One of my guys said that you mentioned that you lost that last goal because of operator error. Are you sure it wasn’t just an out of balance condition? I have a tape that clearly shows the bridge lifting your bot up off of the ground. It doesn’t show what is happening to cause it, but at that point there is definitely a severe out of balance condition. I can send you a copy if it would help.

And yes. You definitely gave us a scare! As you know, it is extremely uncomfortable to be in a do or die position.

Regards,

Mr Bill

Posted by Joe Johnson at 03/14/2001 12:03 PM EST

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

In Reply to: 800 Revisited
Posted by Bill Beatty on 03/14/2001 10:42 AM EST:

I can only see 800 be possible with the stretcher.

Here is my most likely method:

1: 2 goal off bridge balancer that can pull stretcher
2: limbo bot with big ball handler
3: goal pusher/puller with bridge resetting
4: box of rocks… …with a battery and a light :wink:

1st 30 seconds:
Limbo Bot/Ball Handler limbos to other side, gets big ball puts in on far goal, begins to get another ball

Goal Balancer/Stretcher Puller docks with stretcher pulls it to end zone and positions itself to push two goals onto bridge when ready.

Goal Pusher/Puller pushes near goal against glass,
waits for 11 balls to be loaded, pulls goal over to far side of field, resetting the bridge for itself on the way.

2nd 30 seconds:
Goal Pusher/Puller drops off goal in position on far side of the goal, heads to end zone.

Limbo Bot/Ball Handler puts second ball on top of second goal, heads to end zone.

Balancer Bot pushes both goals onto ramp, balances, heads to end zone.

4 robots, 1 stretcher, 2 big balls, 11 little balls: 81 base points AND

Double-Double-Double-and-a-Half

Total Score 810!

Tough to do? Yes.

Impossible? If I understand correctly the reports from WMR, Teams #71, #67, #33 and a box of rocks could possibly make it happen.

Comments?

Joe J.

Posted by colleen - T190 at 03/14/2001 1:57 PM EST

Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.

In Reply to: 810 Dr Joe’s Way
Posted by Joe Johnson on 03/14/2001 12:03 PM EST:

The only word I’ve heard on 2-goal balancers that can do it WITHOUT being on ramp is Beatty… others are you out there??? And can you do it RELIABLY?

Just under 800 isn’t shabby either… if you balance 2 w/ a robot on, there are a lot of scenerios to get 70+ base points in under 1 min…

I’m sure we’ll see (or at least I hope!) a lot of high scoring qualifying matches (400+)… although the chances of getting an 800+ is somewhat impaired by the ‘divisions’… the chances of teams like Beatty getting the teams in their division that can do this little hat trick is that much harder…

But I would LOVE to see it happen… let’s work together and make it happen :slight_smile:

Posted by bill whitley at 03/14/2001 7:22 PM EST

Student on team #70, Auto City Bandits, from Powers Catholic High School and Kettering University.

In Reply to: It’ll take a distinct team…
Posted by colleen - T190 on 03/14/2001 1:57 PM EST:

More than just Beatey cant get goals balanced from off the ramp. And Beatey does it very reliably (I never saw them fail at WMR)! Team 111 (Wildstang) also facilitates goals being balanced from off the bridge. Team 308(?), TRW, can also balance two goals from off the bridge, but from my observations were not as efficient or reliable as the first two.

Posted by Michael Betts at 03/15/2001 9:05 AM EST

Engineer on team #177, Bobcat Robotics, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells.

In Reply to: teams who can balance from off the ramp…
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 7:22 PM EST:

: More than just Beatey cant get goals balanced from off the ramp. And Beatey does it very reliably (I never saw them fail at WMR)! Team 111 (Wildstang) also facilitates goals being balanced from off the bridge. Team 308(?), TRW, can also balance two goals from off the bridge, but from my observations were not as efficient or reliable as the first two.

Bill,

The Bobcat was designed to do just that.

We are designed to move one goal onto, across and to the opposite side of the bridge. This allows a partner to push a goal onto the bridge and then we retract the arm, balance the bridge then let go of the goal.

Attached, you will see a picture from the Quincy Scrimmage.

Note to self… Get better picture!

Mike

Posted by colleen - T190 at 03/15/2001 11:03 AM EST

Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.

In Reply to: Re: teams who can balance from off the ramp…
Posted by Michael Betts on 03/15/2001 9:05 AM EST:

The Spidergoat has similar abilities to Bobcat with the exception of being able to go under the bar…

However, in such situations, I think balancing 2 goals ON YOUR OWN without being on the bridge is a feat worth noticing… and in Beatty’s right… who else can do it??

I can’t wait to see Team Beatty in action!

Posted by Mike Soukup at 03/15/2001 12:02 PM EST

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling and Motorola.

In Reply to: Re: teams who can balance from off the ramp…
Posted by colleen - T190 on 03/15/2001 11:03 AM EST:

: I can’t wait to see Team Beatty in action!

Agreed, Beatty’s machine is exceptional; each time I see it (live or video) I’m amazed.

Their bot is fun to see in action, unless of course you’re competing against them and they’re putting up scores that you can’t match (ie WMR). I still think that if the 66 alliance tied 620 set by 71’s alliance, they would have gotten 700 in the next match and still beat us.

Mike

Posted by Chris Hibner at 03/16/2001 2:39 PM EST

Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.

In Reply to: Re: teams who can balance from off the ramp…
Posted by colleen - T190 on 03/15/2001 11:03 AM EST:

We balance 2 goals from off of the bridge by ourselves. (see the picture below). We seeded horribly at WMR mostly due to the worst luck I’ve ever seen. Between qualifying and elims, we had 11 matches (all of which we were supposed to balance the goals). Out of the 11 matches, we had only 3 opportunities to balance. Out of the other 8 matches, 5 times a robot flipped over on the bridge blocking it, 2 times the bridge came off of the 4x6 when a robot crossed it, and the other time the partner team that was supposed to drag the goal to the other side lost a tank tread and burned a motor.

During our three opportunities, we dumped the goals once (drivers didn’t check the balance light before backing away so the goals weren’t balanced yet), we accidentally hit the stop button as we were backing away, causing the goals to not count but they were balanced, and we balanced successfully and they counted the other time.

I just want to point out that ultimately, we bear the responsibility for the bad luck. Some of our robot’s features weren’t working properly so we had to rely on teams to do things that they weren’t fully comfortable with. However, over the 3 day post-competition period, we got everything working so we should be good to go at the Great Lakes Regional. Now that we have everything working, I’m just hoping that we get some good luck on our side.

Posted by Matt Starkey at 03/16/2001 2:33 PM EST

Engineer on team #236, Techno Ticks, from Lyme/Old-Lyme High School and Millstone Power Station.

In Reply to: Re: teams who can balance from off the ramp…
Posted by Michael Betts on 03/15/2001 9:05 AM EST:

Team 236 is an excellent partner for the single goal off the ramp balancers. To refresh the New England Regional attendee’s memories, the TECHNO TICK robot is the FORKLIFT. Lift a full goal to the high side of a ramp and lower to balance. A team like Bobcat would not have to push any farther up the ramp than as shown in the last picture. And, on top of all of that, we are under the bar with increased speed. Not to toot our own horns, Ah what the heck…TOOT TOOT.

Team 236, the Ticks are on the move!

: : More than just Beatey cant get goals balanced from off the ramp. And Beatey does it very reliably (I never saw them fail at WMR)! Team 111 (Wildstang) also facilitates goals being balanced from off the bridge. Team 308(?), TRW, can also balance two goals from off the bridge, but from my observations were not as efficient or reliable as the first two.

: Bill,

: The Bobcat was designed to do just that.

: We are designed to move one goal onto, across and to the opposite side of the bridge. This allows a partner to push a goal onto the bridge and then we retract the arm, balance the bridge then let go of the goal.

: Attached, you will see a picture from the Quincy Scrimmage.

: Note to self… Get better picture!

: Mike

Posted by Justin at 03/15/2001 9:41 AM EST

Engineer on team #146, Blue Lightning, from none and The Blue Lightning Alumni Association.

In Reply to: teams who can balance from off the ramp…
Posted by bill whitley on 03/14/2001 7:22 PM EST:

Hey,

What about a robot that could I don’t know say put a 3rd or 4th ball in between the goals and squeeze the goals together. I know a few that claim to be able to. I’ve also seen the videos of 188, and while I haven’t seen them play they look like they could pull it off that’s 4 big balls right there which is 20 more points then most are gonna pull off and it’s also 10 more then an an alliance w/all 10 in the endzone.

-Justin

Posted by mike oleary at 03/16/2001 11:14 AM EST

Student on team #419, rambots, from bc high and sponsors are overrated…go pocket-change robots!!!.

In Reply to: Re: teams who can balance from off the ramp…
Posted by Justin on 03/15/2001 9:41 AM EST:

what if a team could put a goal on its side on the bridge and put two big balls on top of that…efficiently…i dont know if any teams can do it at all but it would be interesting to see if they could pull it off

: Hey,

: What about a robot that could I don’t know say put a 3rd or 4th ball in between the goals and squeeze the goals together. I know a few that claim to be able to. I’ve also seen the videos of 188, and while I haven’t seen them play they look like they could pull it off that’s 4 big balls right there which is 20 more points then most are gonna pull off and it’s also 10 more then an an alliance w/all 10 in the endzone.

: -Justin