Alright, here’s the deal. In round 87 at the NYC regional, it is believed that the judges scored the match wrong. Luckily the footage from the NYC regional is still available. The judges scored the blue alliance as 38 and red as 32. After watching the video again, I count blue = 38 and red = 40. This mistake changes the first and second seed. I realize that if no mistake had been made, then the rest of the finals could have gone differently, but in addition to that, the #1 seed points could help towards going to nationals next year and getting a trophy.
I guess what I would like to see happen is like the Canadian figure skating pair. Essentially 2 gold medals. Any other thoughts?
Here is the footage The match is at time 1:46:53. If I am counting wrong, I appologize.
Whether they messed the score up or not, FIRST has constantly shown us this year that the judges rulings are final, and they won’t do video replays for that kind of thing. I watched through the video of the match and it’s really hard to make out how many balls are in each goal, partly due to one goal being behind the other and how poor quality the video is.
if the score was wrong then it should of been taken care at the regional right after the match.
This happen to us the score was wrong and we nicely ask them to review it and they saw they mad a mistake and changed it for us. all before the next match finished.
to change it now would be wrong. even if you could prove the score was wrong. This would open the door to everyone that had a bad call.
I just watched the match straight through and then again with stop action. The final score is clearly discernable from the video.
Before I state my score count, I want to say that I absolutely agree that the referees judgement is final and as soon as everyone leaves the field; that is the score that stands. It is also a stated rule that video replays will not be considered, so there should be no thoughts of trying to get an outcome changed.
That said, it seems that the referees did indeed mis-score the match – no doubt a human error.
The score for the Blue Alliance was correct – 38 – At the end of the match they had two robots in the endzone (20), an empty goal in their goal zone (10) and a goal with eight balls in their ball zone (8). There is a clear view at the 0:50 mark showing these eight balls. (I am assuming no human player balls were added after that point)
Now the Red Alliance score – this clearly should have been 41 – I can’t even figure out what mistake the refs made. At the end of the match there clearly were two robots in the endzone (20), there clearly was a goal with balls in the scoring zone (10 for the goal). At the 0:34 second mark and again at the 0:13 mark it is clear that there are 10 yellow and 1 orange balls in that goal (11). So, 20+10+11 = 41. I don’t know where they got 32 from.
Hope that at least helps your count. But remember – the refs are human too, and are volunteers, not professionals – and considering what they have to do over a two day period, they really do make very few mistakes.
My advice to anyone that ends up in this type of situation: at the MOMENT that the incorrect score is posted on the screen, if you are truly confident of that you are correct: immediately have the team captain (and only the team captain) approach the nearest ref and in a courteous manner state your concern.
Although its possible they will stand by their ruling at that point, it is really the only chance that you have which is consistant with the rules of the competition. They might just re-check their score cards and agree with you. My attitude is that if they say they can’t do anything about it, grin and bear it – arguing at that point doesn’t really do anyone any good.
*Originally posted by Aidan F. Browne *
**…as a follow on…
This is purely speculation, but makes sense as to what the refs error likely was in getting a score of 32 instead of the correct 41:
2 robots = +20 ----> 20 subtotal
11 Balls = +11 ----> 31 subtotal
1 Goal = +1 ----> 32 total INSTEAD of
1 Goal = +10 -----> 41 total
YIKES – at least I found an explaination that makes possible sense – it was bothering me before… **
As far as this scenario goes, all the referees do is provide the “raw” scoring data to the scorer’s table, and the computer does the real work…and with NYC being last weekend, they should have been running v1.20 of the scoring system, the same one I personally operated at Great Lakes…during the two days of scored competition, I never once ran across a bug which would cause a result similar to the one in question here.
*Originally posted by rachakate *
**
I guess what I would like to see happen is like the Canadian figure skating pair. Essentially 2 gold medals. Any other thoughts?
**
Let me change this to, In a perfect world…
I realize the finality of the scores. Mistakes happen. Instead of this being a gripe, I would rather it be advice to the other teams out there. If you have a question or a concern voice it through your team captain right away. Make sure your team knows the score before the field is reset. Don’t be afraid to ask a question if you don’t agree.
Having been involved with a scoring mistake in the first event of the LI Regional, all I can say it that the judges where very gracious in reviewing the score when asked, and making the proper adjustments.
At first, they announced the wrong score, and the wrong alliance winning.
Upon discussion with them, they announced the correct score, but still the wrong alliance as the winner.
Upon further discission with them, they got it right.
As has been mentioned, the refs are volunteers, not professional referees, but even if they were, we all make mistakes. The team should know the score within a fews seconds of the match ending, and calmly ask if they feel the score is not what they calculate (as this was what worked for us).
As far as I saw, the match should’ve been scored as followed:
Red Alliance (571, 574) –
Goals in scoring zone: 1
Balls in goal: 12 (11 Ye, 1 Or)
Robots in endzone: 2
Blue Alliance (743, 348) –
Goals in scoring zone: 1
Balls in goal: 8 (0 Ye, 8 Or)
Robots in endzone: 2
The winner: Red Alliance.
One of two things could’ve happened … the referees forgot about the goal in the red alliance’s scoring zone, or they didn’t count one robot. Either way, too late now.
As far as this scenario goes, all the referees do is provide the “raw” scoring data to the scorer’s table, and the computer does the real work…and with NYC being last weekend, they should have been running v1.20 of the scoring system, the same one I personally operated at Great Lakes…during the two days of scored competition, I never once ran across a bug which would cause a result similar to the one in question here. **
What is the ‘raw scoreing data’?
Could it have been a data entry error?
I have done data entry as a job, hopefully never again for 8 hours at a time. But mistakes do happen…
Possible Nate?