Dudes and Dudettes,
I think one of the things we really need to concentrate on is that it takes a lot of courage to write something here. Doing it the first time takes a while to mustard up the intestinal fortitude to open your mouth (figuratively). Believe it or not, it was a couple of months before I started to get the feel of the boards and actually write something. (I think it started as an retort of a clearly wrong statement but that is a story for another day.) A new poster whether they are asking an obvious question or something that was put to bed on a previous post, needs to feel comfortable here. It may be the only way they can think of to get started. If they walked up to your pit and asked that question, you wouldn’t send them away to go look somewhere else. You wouldn’t berate them for their lack of knowledge of the English language or use of local colloquialisms. The point is, we need to make people feel comfortable and use this board for info and friendship. Let’s welcome them in and when they are seasoned users, remind them that there are features like search. Encourage them to make their posts in a manner that everyone can understand and respect. Show them by your example that punctuation is your friend, spell checker should not be an option, and reading your post before submission is a must for self preservation. If they then choose to ignore the gentle hints…
As a mod on these forums it is tough to get through them all. It is even tougher to find ways to decide what is and is not a good or allowable post. We do our best and kudos for all of the other mods who usually beat me to the problems.
To start with, I believe that the only bad question is one that is not asked. Sure it seems wrong that someone ask what a CIM motor is or how many they can use but that is in my eye not the askers. We need to train them on how to find things and where. To teach a child to speak , do you get mad at them when they can’t say DaDa or do we keep repeating, in loving ways, to encourage the learning curve. We need to be more sensitive on how other people see things because they always don’t have the same perspective or insight that you/we do.
The bigger issue is the constant slamming and put downs that I have been seeing. The FIRST bashing that goes on (I am guilty sometimes, I know) really needs to stop. We/I need to find other ways to get to FIRST and have them listen. Sometimes I think that if we push hard enough here that FIRST will do our bidding when in truth, they are probably not even listening. This is not their board and they do not have to read here even though some do.What would be the impact on CD if we implemented a NO FIRST Bashing policy. That does not mean that we cannot discuss problems but that we just don’t bash FIRST (or others).
It is the responsibility of every member of CD to help make the boards better. If you see someone making a bad post or needing help with the search engine, then we should be PMing them with helpful suggestions and not slamming them with neg reps. We all need to pitch in and it wouldn’t take much to improve the best robotics site in the world.
The large growth of FIRST and CD is great but will also bring a larger demand on all of us as we try to educate and demonstrate what FIRST stands for. GP was not explained to me but shown. My first experience was at my first event as a spectator in Cleavland. What I saw in the pit area was all I needed to see in order to understand GP. It also sold me on FIRST. GP is best shown and lived and not talked about.
Last weekend I met Sabrina Varanelli, founder of team 1302, and I asked her what was the hardest part of starting her team up and she replied “getting the team to understand gracious professionalism”. It really is a foreign concept to most people, especially those new to FIRST. We live in such a competitive society, where it often seems that the majority are just in it for themselves, that the idea that you would help strangers - your competitors no less - seems almost blasphemous. Witness the popularity of TV shows like Survivor and The Apprentice.
Another factor which may contribute to the challenging nature of some CD posts is the “banter” (as my daughter calls it) in many of our normal conversations. To listen to her talk with her sister, you might think that they loathe each other, though they are really very close. This challenge-based communication is fun when used between friends and well-known co-workers, but it’s likely to intimidate, or even enrage others in a public forum like CD. Maybe we need a [BANTER] <your flame here> [/BANTER] tag!
So what to do? Think Tolerant. For example, rather than reply to an un-searched post with a flame, reply with some links to the posts they would have found if they searched, and a gentle reminder about “search is your friend” at the end. Remember that it is a really good thing that everyone thinks different and has different beliefs. What fun would life be if we did all think alike?
Great point, I’ve been a frequenter of ChiefDelphi for about 7 months now, and even in the short time that I’ve been here I’ve seen the forums go up and down, at times its Cutthroat (recently is an example) whereas other times it was the great thing since robots were thought of (such as just before the championship) But something I’ve definitely learned is to ask myself after i click the Spell Check button (spell correctly people!) Do I want to submit this? lets take a look at this people, this is a public forum where many of our peers read, a couple of aggravated posts can change what people think of you.
Here are a couple of tips that can always help when posting,
-Do you really want to post what you just typed? its OK to delete it or edit it!
-don’t take things too seriously, there is a tendency around here to for people to take a couple of remarks too seriously
-Search before creating a new topic, also make sure you search all forums, you may have missed a topic devoted to what you are looking for
-There never is a “best” its always opinion
-Spell Check!
-Try not to go political or religious in these forums, there are other sites for stuff like that
-Respect any Admin/Moderator decision
-keep a sense of humor, watchposting and you
Happy Postings!
I could write 3 pages about my outlook on this situation, but I decided to be concise.
I think some people just take all of this too seriously.
First of all: Excellent total post, Steve. You shared some great thoughts!
In response to the first paragraph quoted, you are absolutely correct. As you know, I sometimes work very closely with some FIRST people, and you are absolutely right in your supposition that they’re not listening to the Forums…many are unaware of what the forums do, or even of the existence of this site. Someone else, I don’t know who, made the suggestion to suggest to FIRST that they have someone scan the site, at least occasionally so that they have some idea of what’s being discussed.
As far as posts are concerned, it’s always much more gracious to make a suggestion privately, rather than make a public display! You both look better to each other and to the community at large. 
Occasionally, the behavior of others does need a direct bit of assertiveness. It’s only lately, and perhaps more so this year, that I have personally seen or heard of less than gracious behavior from teams. I was really disappointed, because I’ve always thought that this was one activity where people were consistently nice to each other. And it wasn’t always the young people. We need to stress the idea that grandma’s watching everybody!
Now, what’s the best way to get these messages out and about???
I agree! This is especially true in the Rules/Strategy forum. Someone asks a question that could have been answered just by looking in the right part of the rule book (usually game rules or robot building rules). Then someone else looks it up and responds. And about ten more people do the same with their take on it. Takes up time needed to build a robot…
Memo to Brandon: here’s one for the Newbie button!
Thanks for sharing this - I still have a grin and giggle thing going.
I think these really need to be emphasized. We’ve developed the “Search before you post” mantra lately. Search is a great tool that everyone should learn how to use, but:
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I did a brief search for “search before you post” and the threads they refer to… on a few occasions, the original poster had negative reps with total post counts less than 10. Someone had it on their first post. To the rest of us that have seen the reputation debates and made up our mind that it’s not really so important, this may have little effect, but on the user’s first few posts?
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One of the great things I like about FIRST competitions is that I can go up to a really veteran team, ask a question (that may turn out to be very obvious and seemingly quite stupid), and get a courteous, helpful answer without getting a “stupid newbie” or “you should know better” feeling. I might be alone in this, but seeing everyone spout out “search before you post” doesn’t quite give the same effect. If someone is asking a simple question, perhaps “I found this answer to your question in this thread using search” or “{quick answer}. If you want more details, you might want to check out this thread I found using search.” If someone is making a discussion question, perhaps, “I saw some other people discussing the same topic here:”. The threads can then be closed/merged/etc. Text on the internet is very impersonal, and knowing FIRST’s target audience, there’s the possibility that a new user has never used the internet before. Some need a special welcome into the community, and the less impersonal our responses are, the better…
“I see you’re pretty new to these boards. Welcome to the ChiefDelphi community! You’ll find that there’s a lot of helpful people and resources here that can help answer your questions and share the FIRST experience. Regarding <topic>, there’s a lot of discussion about that topic <link>here</link> already. I found it using search function, which can help you find if someone else is wondering the same thing already. There’s a wonderful tutorial about how to use search here. Hope that helps, and welcome again!”
We don’t build robots because it’s easy, we do it because it’s hard. Maybe we can work on giving new members a warmer and gentler welcome, because it’s hard ;).
Good list! I would also like to add:
- You don’t have to have perfect syntax and grammar, but if you want other posters to take you seriously, it helps to be able to form a coherent sentence. And let’s face it, it’s not really that hard, is it?
- Use your English skills to find the nicest way to say whatever you want to say. If there isn’t a nice way to say something, you probably don’t need to say it, at least not on a public forum. For example, disagreeing is fine, but instead of saying, “You’re wrong!” you could just as easily say, “I disagree with you because…”
- Easy on the smileys! Please?
- If you’re in so much of a rush that you can’t type out entire words (“you” instead of “u”, etc), you probably don’t have time to be browsing an online forum.
I’d agree
I don’t post much (if you can’t tell), but i read alot. Sometimes i want to post and return the fact that they’re being a little short tempered there, and it kinda stops me. I’m not going to waste all my time doing that stuff.
It’s not nice. End of story
wow! I made the mistake of venturing into a thread a couple days ago on a political subject, and I got absolutely HAMMERED with assualts on my intelligence, comments on my grammer and punctuation (or lack there of)
I was accused of spreading half-truths and lies (with no rebuttal to the actual statements themselves, whatever they were)
and I was repeatedly hit with thinly vailed insults
To put it bluntly, Im appalled to see people on this forum think that insulting someone, name calling, labeling, or criticizing someone elses language, spelling, punctuation… is either appropriate, acceptable, or that this somehow makes your point for you
or that flinging a mulititude of insults and induendos is even better
If you know what someone is saying then they have communicated their message, there is no need for every post to have perfect spelling or grammer
logic and reasoning skills should be required in public schools. If you are in a passionate debate, insulting the other person and criticizing their language skills contributes nothing to your position.
I agree 100%. All too often people just reply with “Search before you post” with a link and it always sounds very harsh to me. Honestly, I find the “Search before you post” people to be way more annoying (and rude) than the newbies asking simple questions.
To those who love to slam people with “Search before you post”: maybe you should think twice before you reply too. If someone came up to you at a competition and asked you how many points a tetra on a goal was worth, would you snap back at them, “Read the manual!” I hope not.
Yeap, you two are 110% right. just saying, go Search it is rude at times. Its more constructive to teach them something as well as give them an answer.
How many points are tetra’s worth again? I seem to have forgotten…
Appropriate Answer: They are worth 3 points on top and 1 point if they are underneath the goals. If you have any more questions you may want to consult here if you have any more questions.
you guys get the idea, you should think of Chief Delphi as an extention of the pit area, everyone is really friendly, love robots, and you can always get your questions answered. not as a forum where people slam each other just for the heck of it.
The reason why that is done is so the page doesn’t get flooded with duplicate threads. It is not meant to be rude it is meant to keep the page neat and orderly.
Simply saying “search before you post” can be interpreted as rude. All it takes is some grace, shown by the eloquent Genia. Look at that. She was helpful, concise, and said “search before you post” in a tactful way. Let’s learn from her.
Andy B.
Yes, I understand why it is done, however, to the uninitiated, it looks like a very short, very unfriendly response.
How is a response that says “Search before you post” any more neat and orderly than one that says “I searched the forums and found that the answer to your question is {blah}. Here’s some threads that came up that have already discussed this topic: {blah} {blah}.”? To me, the latter just sounds a lot more friendly.
I guess I don’t like it when people get publicly scolded for making a newbie mistake. Searching first is an etiquette thing that we take for granted but the fact that so many people make this mistake is an indication that it apparently is not common knowledge for new members and therefore we need to be nice about it.
The fact that it’s in the rules when they sign up for this site should prevent it, but face it: a lot of people just don’t read that stuff. Do you know how many teams I’ve inspected at competitions that failed to put the team number on their robot? It’s one of the most common things that I have to tell teams to fix. And, it’s in the rule book and it’s the very first item on the inspection checklist and it’s an easy one. As much as it irritates me each time I see it, I don’t yell at the team and make some sarcastic comment about reading the rules. This is a very similar situation, and it’s more important because it’s very easy for people to misinterpret emotions and intentions when they’re only reading text (especially if they’re relative newbies to online communities such as this).
2 Thoughts:
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Efficiency, neatness, and orderliness are useful tools, but they aren’t the end-all-be-all of a team or a forum.
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My rookie team went to Atlanta this year, and they were disturbed by the lack of GP shown by other teams, in contrast to the Las Vegas Regional (the only other competition we’d been to). The friendliness and camaraderie at the Regional was missing in the pit and on the field. There were even teams who covered up their robots in the pit when asked a question! It made the team question whether they just wanted to stick with Regionals next year!
Why is it that I didn’t hear stories like this when I joined FIRST three years ago?
It could just be me, but it seems like the emphasis on GP has decreased. Significantly, and not just on this website.
I’m not quite sure if this is on-topic in the thread, though, since this seems to be dedicated to the website more than FIRST in general. That said, I’ve got a few ideas brewing that I could post here (or elsewhere) later on…
Genia rocks my socks! she is a very nice person and she always uses smileys and replies to PM’s! I think we should all use her as a role model… 
yeah about the lack of GP thing, I am a rookie and I found most people to be REALLY nice at competitions, both Pacific Northwest Regional and Championships, but I have noticed that sometimes on the forums people are a little less than nice. so let’s all be like Genia and use smileys and be good FIRSTies
-anjali