Hanging robots and <G31>

<G31> BALL RETURN and RETURN BARS Protection - ROBOTS may not contact the BALL RETURN or the RETURN BARS (black tape). Violation: PENALTY for inadvertent contact; plus a RED CARD for obviously intentional contact or damaging contact.

If I am reading this right, this restricts the robots from hanging from three of the four sides of the tower, and effectively to only the midfield side of the tower as I see it practically impossible for a robot to balance on one of the bumps and then grab the side of the tower. This in turn essentially limits your team to ONE robot hanging from the tower (ELEVATED), meaning if the other two robots are going to score points from being off the playing field, they would have to either sit on the tower platform or be hanging from another robot (SUSPENDED) for three points.

What are some of your opinions on this rule, and my assumption that only one bar is viable for elevating your robot.

Look below the ball return in the official drawings. There’s another bar there, below the ball return. If you can avoid hitting ball return elements while hanging on that, you can hang on any side of the tower.

As for not being able to hang on the sides, I can think of two robots that would be able to do that right off the top of my head, if they’re still running: the 60/254 collaborative twins. They wouldn’t balance on the bump, either.

(Now that I’ve said this, watch those designs be copied all over the place…)

Look at page 8 of the “arena section” in the game manual. It shows the ball return as being above the top of the tower, and no parts of the tower have black tape, so I think you can safely latch onto all four sides.

If you look at section “6.2.4 The TOWERS” of the manual, and the associated picture of the ball return attaching to the towers you see the following

The TOWER is designed to support the weight of several ROBOTS. The RETURN BARS are the two horizontal bars at the top of the rear of the TOWER (the side nearest the ALLIANCE WALL). The RETURN BARS support the lower end of the BALL RETURN and are covered in black tape.

This implies that both the upper and lower bar are “no-touch” areas, because they are both covered in black tape.

Good point. The side bar comment stands, though.

Agreed on the side bar hanging. There’s numerous examples of side hanging robots from 2004. Take your pick of implementations.

Which previous year involved hanging? The years I participated as a student were '05 (Triple Play) and '06 (Aim High) in which there was no hanging.
I don’t suppose you have a picture or care to explain how this mechanism would grab the side bar without balancing on the bump.

edit: thanks Kevin, I will try to find some pics from 2004 as well as looking at the game.

2000 and 2004. Take a plunge through CDMedia for pictures.

I think '04 (Raising the Bar) was the last hanging game.

I found this image of team 60’s robot from 2004, and unless I am looking at it wrong, the robot would have to be facing the bar to attach to it, and according to the comments the hook starts attached to their ball grabber with velcro and the ball grabber is in line with the wheel base. Also, the tower does not extend past the base of the hump, so that robot would have to be sitting on the bump, facing the bar to attach to it, or am I completely wrong here?
edit: theoretically if the arm was on the extreme left or right of the bot, and the hook was positioned perpendicular to the arm, you could drive OVER the bump with the arm extended and the hook would snag the bar as you drove by.

You’re off. They’d go flying past the bar at close range with their gripper open and their hook pole out. Next thing you know, their arm is folded and they’re climbing a cable.

Here’s a link to a shot of starting configuration. It’s the twin, 254, but it gets the point across. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/18193

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/18193

It was a sight to see…

the question i think youre asking is if you can hang on the cube shaped “tower” and the rule you have posted it for the return track which is the part above that the ball follows to get to the "tower and u cannot hang on that track at anytime during the match

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/17238
There’s 57’s. No problems lifting from the side,save that the window lift was a little slower than might have been optimal.

We’re thinking about hanging off the virticle support posts on the tower. Our question is… Are the towers secured so they won’t fall over with 130lb robot clamped on to one of it’s verticle posts?

A student just asked if the rules prevented us from shooting a grappling hook over the top of the tower and pulling us up with a cable.

There may be some other rules as well, but be careful of the size restriction. If you shoot it too high, or you miss, will you still be in a legal size configuration?

Also if you miss, can you get it back and try again?

Specifically you’ll also want to read all the entanglement rules. It’s not a chance I would personally take.

as far as hanging off the posts, some robots hanging from the top bar will be putting more torque on it than something holding onto the vertical posts. :slight_smile:

also see this pic posted by someone else: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8252&d=1263155312

Teach by example, read the rules. Also, you might want to put that in the form of a question if you want an answer.

the max height you can extend to is 90" and the bar is at 7’ i.e. 84", so unless you can get it to fire between a 6" window while staying within the 84" cylinder during the final period sure… but there are far simpler solutions.

making sure your team has a full understanding of the rules while designing is very important.

I think a robot in full trim should be able to hang off of one of the vertical support posts. I’d imagine, that the tower and it’s mounting system was designed with a safe working load of about 900lbs or more. (900 lbs being derived from 6 robots hanging from the tower in some strange crazy illegal instance) The only thing you may experience while hanging is some slight warping of the bar, maybe a half inch to an inch at most.

If you’re all just discussing hanging and nothing else ignore this comment, otherwise you might recall that you can be on top of the tunnel (the platform that connects to the flat area of the bumps and is inside the tower). You can still get the 2 points but you’ll need to fit in there. If you’re having problems with hanging try resting on the platform and having other robots ramp on top of you for the 3 point bonuses.
If i have the interpretation wrong, please tell me.