In terms of just the sheer number of high-quality teams, I believe that the Michigan State Championship will be unrivaled. I also agree with others that events that 1114 have attended are “the hardest” as well (that is, unless you are paired with them:yikes: ). The Washington DC regional looks to be a “hard” regional as well, with team like 330 and 45 making a trip to this regional.
I think 330 actually dropped DC for Vegas.
Or else they’re waitlisted on DC–but they are signed up for Vegas. That’s going to be a tough event.
i would bet it will be one of the mid-west regionals, but Florida is also going to be bringing some tough teams down, as well as some rookies(which are always interesting)and experienced teams
1018 is going to be a tough team this year, better watch out for them.
For my money, the most objective measurement of a regional’s perceived difficulty is the Blue Banner Quotient, the distribution of blue FRC banners* across the teams registered for it. For a more focused view of recent performance, the Sextuple Achievement Uniform Counting Era limits the view of BBQ to that of the 3v3 era–2005 and later, which is also the longest most students graduating in 2008 could have been on an FRC team.
For example, the 29 teams currently registered for Palmetto have earned a combined 30 banners in their history, and 20 since 2005. Do the division, and that yields a BBQ of 1.03 and a SAUCE of 0.69. At the 54-team Florida Regional, with 41 recent banners and 66 overall, a BBQ of 1.22 and SAUCE of 0.76 indicate that Florida will most likely be a tougher regional than Palmetto. (Historically, this has been the case.)
Obviously, a higher BBQ is indicative of more storied teams in attendance, but the SAUCE measurement will generally be a better measurement of the competitiveness of the teams recently. It’s not a perfect measurement–for one, it weighs regional and Championship awards equally–but I think you’ll find yourself in the ballpark.
Now, the hard part: computing BBQ and/or SAUCE for the regionals. (My head’s had enough just computing Palmetto and Florida.) Anyone have a way of figuring it out quickly?
*For the uninitiated, blue banners are awarded for Regional Champion, Regional Chairman’s Award, Division Champion, Championship Chairman’s Award, and Championship Winner.
I don’t have a way of figuring quickly, but some rough numbers for the L.A. Regional are: 46 teams, 31 combined banners, 20 since 2005. BBQ of 0.67, SAUCE of 0.43.
Not exactly a strong regional. That doesn’t say anything about individual team strength, though-- about 50% of the total banners and all but one of the pre-2005 banners are held by two teams.
Oh, and there are exactly three out-of-state teams attending (which may drop the BBQ and SAUCE a bit). Consider this an invitation to the L.A. Regional, if you want another event. We haven’t had more than one out-of-state team at a time since 2005, and would like some more teams.
really? I know 330 and 294 have pre2005 banners, are there really no other teams at LA with banners from back then?
Make that 3 teams–980 has a Regional Winner from 2004.
294 and 330 have 9 pre-2005 (294: 4, 330: 5) and 8 2005 and later (294: 1, 330: 8) between them. Total: 17 of the 31 combined total. 980 has 3, 1717 has 2, 1860 has 2, and not many others have more than one. 968 (5 banners) is not signed up at this time. Hopefully they come…
A quick way of calculating that might be to parse the teams history from the FIRST web page. So for example, to find all blue banners won by 1114 since 2005 I could write:
curl -Ls frclinks.com/t/1114 | grep ".*200[5-9].*[A-z].*Cha"| grep -v "\^\<]"
Running that returns :
2008 IL Regional Champion
2008 CMP Champion - Galileo Division
2008 CMP Championship Winner
2008 ON Regional Champion
2008 WAT Regional Chairman’s Award
2008 WAT Regional Champion
2007 WAT Regional Champion
2007 ON Regional Champion
2006 GL Regional Champion
2006 ON Regional Champion
2006 WAT Regional Chairman’s Award
2006 WAT Regional Champion
2005 ON Regional Champion
Count the number of lines in the output and I would say you have your automated way of finding blue banners.
With them signed up for SD and Vegas, I doubt it.
The BeachBots originally signed up for DC hoping to get a grant to attend. Then we found out we were not eligible for it. So we are going to Las Vegas instead.
If I figured out the BBQ and SAUCE for Las Vegas correctly, they come out to 1.92 and 1.11 respectively based on teams currently registered. It is also a deep field with no team having more than 20% of the SAUCE points. ALL of the powerhouse teams of the West Coast will be there. I am glad I’m not working this one. It will be one to watch. There should be at least two good robots in every match.
If it helps any Billfred… in exchange for your post making me EXTREMELY hungry for roast meat…
I think I have properly calculated the BBQ and SAUCE for both the Philadelphia and Washington D.C. Regionals [based on the current attending teams list and awards listings from the FIRST site.]
- 58 teams registered
- 51 Total Banners
- 29 Banners since 2005
- 46 teams registered
- 58 Total Banners
- 31 Banners since 2005
(I can send you my excel spreadsheet if needed)
Gotta steal a corny line from a friend, but I loves me some BBQ SAUCE.
I’d say it’s borderline unfair to say a west coast regional without 1717 has all of the powerhouse teams. After the machines they made in 07 and 08, I predict powerhouse status for 09.
Either way, Las Vegas is looking great. The kids on 973 have been pretty sheltered from some real tough competition (with the exception of Vegas last year, which is looking weak compared to this year) and it looks like this will open their eyes.
Why are you using RCA wins as an indicator of regional robot competitiveness? Wouldn’t a more accurate reading show only regional wins? Couldn’t you take it a slice deeper and show Regional Champions and Regional Finalists?
Nothing against the RCA, but the fact that a team wins that award doesn’t seem to be an indicator to me that they are tougher to beat on the field.
It would be fantastic if someone (with more time than me) would run the data for all the regionals checking for Regional Champions, & Regional Finalists. I bet this data would help someone create a more accurate picture.
Wouldn’t change L.A. much…
The BBQ Silver rating and SAUCE Silver (Silver = Finalist included, no CAs) for L.A. are now at the following: 48 teams, 54 total winners and finalists, 37 2005 and later. BBQS of 1.12, SAUCES of 0.77. Same teams at or near the top of the list.
Still doesn’t create a balanced picture, though–older teams tend to have a higher number of banners/medals than newer ones, though at L.A. there are some newer teams that have a nice high count. The two teams that share the top medal/banner counts are two of the oldest three or four teams in the area, and certainly the two oldest continuous ones that have stayed at the same schools. The next two or three are mid-range–they’ve been around a few years, but maybe only about half the time or less of the older ones.
well the teams robot is not the only aspect of competition and i think it was a good decision to include that in there because they might have a solid robot but lost the regional for other reasons
I disagree. Just because a team has won a chairmans award does not mean that they are a powerful team out on the field. JVN is correct on this one.
I’d imagine Billfred included the Chairman’s Award to get that sixth team for his every so punny acronym. PAUCE just doesn’t roll off the tongue. :rolleyes:
That said, this BBQ/SAUCE is quite interesting.
If we are looking at pure large no. of great teams at one regional, midwest and Florida comes to mind. Pure intimidation to say the least.
NJ has a lot of great teams too, led by who else, team 25.
Finally, any regional that the Poofs attend on the West Coast, especially SVR, with its veteran group of teams.
We all know who leads the Canadians.
Hawaii was very tough last year, but very different this year with the lack of veteran presence that signed up.