I was writing this after reading the all-to-memeorable posts at the top of the General FIRST topic forum and was thinking of this. Has CD lost it’s focus? Not that it’s not about FIRST, but wasn’t CD always more like a hanging ground for FIRST people? Wasn’t it a place to have fun? What happened? Am I the only one who feels that this has been ruined by the stiffness that some people have brought (not targeting anyone particular.) It seems like CD has moved from a fun place where people with similar passions can hang out and chat has now turned into a public relations filled mine-field of ‘if he says that, then it must be true about the rest of the team’ morals?
While I do agree that bashing, spam, trolls, and other things are bad in forms, but when someone expresses their opinions and they have to think about if team x will not like them and not pick them for their alliance, don’t you think the soul of CD was lost? I’m not talking about slander, or anything else that’s just negative, I’m talking about opinions.
I’ve always felt that this needed to get out there, I have had some unplesent moments on CD which I’m not going to get into. At one point I left it for good, only to be told to stay from a higher-up on the Sparky food chain. FIRST isn’t about watching your steps and being cautious, but instead taking risks. Sure, your opinion might not be popular, but you took the risk that people might just agree with you and implement it.
As anyone who went to the CD web-hug at Nats this year knows, Mr. Martus said that FIRST wanted to censor the forums sometimes, and that he said that it was best for FIRST to get opinions out that arn’t always with rose-colored glasses on. But has it come to the point where any opinions toward someone’s ideas/robot can’t be taken, or more importantly, that they won’t be expressed since the person with the opinion dosn’t want the person/team in question to start to dislike them?
It’s even come to the point where I don’t know if I should even post this thread, but it needs to be done. I think it needs to be done. So before you hit the reply button to this or another thread, you need to remember that this place was started as a discussion forum, not a press release forum.
end rant
Any comments are welcome. I have a feeling that I might see some…
Personally, because we all can’t agree on everything, there will be conflict. The maturity of those who choose to voice their disagreements cause either discussions or arguments.
More people means more conflict. That’s the nature of people. There is nothing the moderators can do besides remove posts which are vulgar or overly abusive… which has been done many times.
The direct “verbal” abuse of another team should not be acceptable, but should be expected. After all, when the wheels hit the carpet, it is a competition. No professional or amature sport goes without Fans of Team X despising Team Y. For example, college football. Every year there are arguments and even fist fights over the Michigan vs Michigan State game. This is football. The fights aren’t between players, they are between fans. Many of the fans aren’t alumni of either school, they are just fans who get emotional. While I’ve never seen a fight break out over FIRST robots, there have been many hurt feelings and crude comments.
FIRST is a sport. It has rules, it has objectives, it has entertainment value, and it has fans. The fans in FIRST are more often the team members and families (akin to the college students and their families at the football game). Most everyone naturally has a “Better than you” attitude, and trys to flaunt it. When opposition is in their way, they attack it.
It’s our nature to be conflicting. I’m sure Andy Baker and Dean Kamen disagree on some things, but they would both be mature enough to talk it out rather than come to blows, or harsh words. Students, however, generally do not have the same maturity level as these two well-known and respected individuals. Adolesence itself creates uncertainty of one’s own performance, then they “must” bring someone else below them to be on top.
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m not saying it’s wrong. I’m saying that more people will always mean more conflict. Many more mature role-models within the community is likely the only way to lessen the severity of the conflicts.
*Originally posted by Gadget470 *
**
It’s our nature to be conflicting. I’m sure Andy Baker and Dean Kamen disagree on some things, but they would both be mature enough to talk it out rather than come to blows, or harsh words. Students, however, generally do not have the same maturity level as these two well-known and respected individuals. Adolesence itself creates uncertainty of one’s own performance, then they “must” bring someone else below them to be on top.
**
I agree with this aspect of your response very well. I know some people who look back at something they posted years ago and are ashamed and/or embarrased of their arrogant youthful approach to writing a response. This might be one reason, as people get older… they may change their name.
Noboby should feel intimidated about posting on these forums. We are all just simple people who have an addiction to FIRST. And part of that addiction leads to spending a part of each day basking in the CD discussions, and hearing how our “far-away” friends going about their lives during the slowed down part of the year.
It also must be understood that sometimes when somebody posts something rather rash… that they are just in a really bad mood. It happens to all of us. I dont think the blame should be put mostely on the poster… but on the readers as well. Every reader should have an understanding and flexibility. We are a diverse group of people with a common joy and a willingness to learn. Lets focus on sharing that.
For those of us who’ve been on these forums for a long time, we sometimes talk about how nice it would be to go back to the “good old days.” Generally, that refers to the forums run on the old software (otherwise known as the software Brandon wrote completely himself). However, when I think about it, I doubt there really were any “good old days.” Instead, I just ignored what the problems were at that time (and there were problems). Usually, things seem better in hindsight than they actually were. So I really doubt that ChiefDelphi.com has lost its focus. Its focus is whatever we make it be.
Matt
::: Listening to Drive you Home by Garbage ::::
Everyones brought a good point to the table, indeed
But ive noticed the trend of JosephM concern between team relations and forums not being quiet so free any or maybe they never were.
The responses to the Original Post seem to be about Human nature and just how things are and how team “rivalry” or just team “Pride” leads us to discuss and objectify particular team or just opposing teams as entities of crude , hurtful, and UN-FIRST like behaviors and that its nature that we would all conflict and bicker about things and opinions. Should we all just settle with that? i mean people CHOOSE to feel certain ways on certain topics and CHOOSE to act a particular way toward particular comments. we choose to do and see things as we like. the point I’m trying to make is that people have begun to CHOOSE to be intolerant of comments and opinions.
I usually find myself of the short end of this stick on this deal as i personally usually take the view less used to speak and think about topics in question and say certain things not to attack anyone or cause harm to anyone including myself, just ideas and opinions. yet people have CHOSEN to brush what i say aside as irrelevant, improper, or just plain wrong and i find CDers responses to to my comment with intolerance and assumption to other things, beginning arguments on other topics and details that i did not discuss nor anyone responding would need to talk about. umm this post is getting a bit long and i don’t have to much time but i just want people to be aware of this lil’ network of CDers that cant catch a break from no one when it comes to voicing our opinions. i see it all the time, thats why i give everyone a break and not be so critical and intolerant to there ideas or opinions always except it with the dignity ad respect and if i don’t agree with the comment i will voice a comment to that effect and explain why without fear that my comment wont be excepted and give less respect than i gave the opposition, just because i have faith in people and that they will do the right thing and share that gracious professionalism were always talking about
-I’m Done for now-
-Oscar-
P.S Plz share this with your fellow CDers:p
Respect
Validity
Understanding
My origional post was more about how teams use CD as more of a PR tool and that free discussion should come back.
indeed but i use your post to reference wut i feel is a trend and a reason for a less and less free discussion
*Originally posted by Erin Rapacki *
**…It also must be understood that sometimes when somebody posts something rather rash… that they are just in a really bad mood. It happens to all of us. I dont think the blame should be put mostely on the poster… but on the readers as well. Every reader should have an understanding and flexibility. We are a diverse group of people with a common joy and a willingness to learn. Lets focus on sharing that. **
I’ve only been in FIRST for 1 full year, and on CD for the same amount, so I can’t really say much.
But Erin does have a point. When someone does post something even rash (doesn’t have to be rather), you have to think if they had a bad day, they mis-read a post, or some sort of that.
I can understand losing your temper, it happens to me all the time. But this isn’t like vocal speech, when you type out your message nobody sees it until you click post. You should be responsible enough to read back what you wrote and ask yourself “Is this really the best way to say it?”. If you’re so angry you can’t do that, then don’t post it then. Wait until you calm down and think about. In this method of communication there’s no excuse for stupid behavior, you can’t accidentally slip and type a whole message and hit post. Nobody is that spastic 
Not even me, and I broke my arm trying to get out of chair.
EDIT: If one more person laughs at me for that last line…you know who you are…shakes fist angrily
Personally, although I was not present in ‘the good old days’ that seem so coveted, I really like these forums and the ease of communication.
It’s funny to me that people let a bad egg on these forums get to them so much - yes, it might be irritating when someone disagrees with what you’ve said (or completely slams it), but there’s no reason to fly off the handle to retaliate against someone’s comments.
I think CD is a powerful resource and an excellent tool for FIRST. Don’t knock it too much - there’s a lot we couldn’t learn without it.
*Originally posted by Amanda Morrison *
**handle to retaliate against someone’s comments.
I think CD is a powerful resource and an excellent tool for FIRST. Don’t knock it too much - there’s a lot we couldn’t learn without it. **
I would have to agree with you Amanda, even though last season was my first year on CD, it is a powerful tool, that we are very lucky to have.
-Greg The Great