A pretty ingenious strategy to consider. Some sort of chain would really help. Have one or two people in between the person at the goal and the Human Play. It’s great that FIRST allows the mentors to handle the ball this year, because some teams may not utilize their coaches as much as others, so this gives them a chance to assist the alliance.
i’d say go for both. take the penalty to go get the ball and put it back in to prevent more penalties adding up, rather than having the penalty add every 2 seconds. then go dominate the field.
Does anyone know where I can find all the rules that involve the human player?
More specifically, <G15> - <G17> in Section 7.3.4.3 and <G48> - <G52> in Section 7.3.6 in the Game Manual.
While I agree that throwing isn’t a good idea, our team has found it quite easy to actually catch the balls with the trident when thrown. After you get the hang of it it’s not that bad, especially if you train your human player. Of course people are appalled and faint on the spot at the thought of this.
I like the floor-stab idea though, and I think the safest bet will probably be to roll the ball to the human player, who stops it with his foot by stepping on it, and then stabs it with the trident. The bucket-brigade idea sounds great too for desperate times.
Our team has had a couple people practice. We all agree that one of the simplest and easiest ways is to have one of the corner human players pick up the ball, and then the middle HP sticks out the trident to the corner HP, and then that corner HP sticks it in the trident. It seems to work quite efficiently.
Has anyone else considered handling two balls at once?
I noticed there wasn’t a rule against it.
You’d better re-read the rules on POSSESSION 
I think he is talking about handling two balls as a human player.
And if not, you better look up the rules!
I heard there was a rule saying that when you returned the balls with the trident, that you must pull down the trident strait and not in a curve. Is this a real rule and if it is where can i find where it says that?
There is no such rule. It might be a recommendation from someone, because the balls may be firmly held by the trident, and wouldn’t be released if there is no downward motion.
I played with the trident on our ball return a bit before ship and it was a pretty enlightening experience, if not a bit fun. For new human players the trident is going to be a bit awkward to wield especially if you’re on the smaller/shorter side. After about 10 minutes of playing with it our prospective Human Players and Myself seems to be pretty handy with it.
One thing we did notice though is that the ball return was pretty forgiving. We didn’t miss getting ball in more than one or two times and as long as you place one of the posts in the center between the two rails it seems like you’ll be about 99% accurate. Also, I found that the most effective way for me to use the trident was to place the ball onto the return and pull the trident out in an arcing motion (Forward arc towards the field). This gives the ball a little push down the return so that it’ll go faster and it also reduces the risk of having it bounce a bit, which can happen when you pull the trident out very fast and straight down.
GTR is running pretty smoothly all things considered but there were things I saw today that made me have to go back to this thread again.
I witnessed some of the most blatantly inexcusable mistakes I have ever seen teams make in the driver stations in all my years in FIRST that left me completely flabbergasted.
*I witnessed a human player just standing there with a ball in the trident and wait and stare for seconds like they wanted to see the light turn on.
- I witnessed countless number of foot faults where kids not only stepped out of the station but were never in it in the first place! A whole drives team was outside the box!
*But the one that took the cake was the human player who stood over by the judges area and simply watched the match while his team participated. He was so far over he was out of the referee’s line of vision (who was too busy watching the field to notice some kid standing behind him who should have been in the driver’s station) and didn’t incur penalties. When I approached him after the match and asked him if he realized that he may have incurred a whole lot of penalty points for his alliance he said he had no idea he was supposed to be in the driver’s station.
Sadly this isn’t an isolated incident as I have seen time and again teams do things that make me wonder if the only understanding of what they had too do came from simply watching the game animation.
Over the years I have gone to many events and have witnessed actions in the stations that I can merely label as shameful to be blunt.
It’s one thing to build a mediocre to poor robot due to lack of funds and resources but it’s a whole other thing to come to the events woefully unprepared because teams cannot be bothered to click a link and read the manual.
I know people love to dismiss the behaviors of these teams and say "it’s not about the robot and “winning doesn’t matter” but considering the investment and time, effort and money that other teams have also put into this what they are doing is practically downright criminal.
When you sign up for an event you are obligated to put forth your best effort not just simply for your students and mentors but for the other teams at the event who are forced to work along side you in matches. That these teams come so blatantly unprepared to compete doing the simplest things like knowing where to stand in the driver’s station is an insult to the hard work they have done and should not be tolerated plain and simple.
Reading and understanding the rules should be a requirement you do before you hit the field not a strategic advantage of well rounded teams that know what they’re doing!
As stated at the beginning, the human player does have a huge impact not on winning a match, but on losing a match. Unfortunately during one of our matches our human players were trying to put the ball back into play and it fell and hit our driver’s hand which then hit the keyboard killing our robot. We lost that match in part because it was 2 on 3 after our robot got shut off. Although it’s no one’s fault really, it is just disappointing to lose a match because of a silly error that was probably caused by rushing. I was not involved in this but I was a human player and I never practiced. The only thing I made sure to do was stay calm and move deliberately but cautiously. If you try to quickly return the ball you will mess up more often than if you take an extra second or two and make sure not to drop it.
As one of two HPs for our team, I’ve found that the big difference in matches in terms of behind the DS is awareness of the trident player. In both of the regionals I’ve been to, the dominant strategy between human players was to have the trident player ready, holding the trident out to the goal when a ball came in, and the goal player just stuffing the ball into the trident. The return times were excellent with this method, I don’t think a single ball was dropped in the matches I played in. The trident player also had that extra time to be careful when loading the return ramp.
One thing I have noticed is that humans with the trident are putting the ball in way too hard. It is a lot safer to put it in gently and calmly and unless your 469, there is no real rush. 11 seconds is plenty of time as long as you pay attention. Also, don’t watch the game and be careful with teams that say they are good with the trident because that is not always 100% true.
I was an human player this year and last year, and I have found one thing to be for sure: That many people get lazy and dont completely have their head in the game this year! Yes, after last year human player is a cake walk, but that is no reason to:
A. Not Read the Rules
B. Not Pay Attention During the Game
C. Make a stupid decision and rack up DOGMA POINTS for your Alliance!
Anyone who has worked with me knows that I am stalwart on having no penalties. No throwing the ball. No throwing the ball. And above all, DONT THROW THE BALL! During build season at our local field donor, Sonic Tools, we found that the most efficient way to return the balls to the field is for the center player with the trident to, extend the trident, have the outer players gently and calmly push the ball into the trident, and then lift it up onto the ball return. Throwing does not work. The tridents that I have come across have a very tight fit around the ball, allowing for no room topick it off the floor or catch it in midair. I hate to opinionate this heavily, but I feel it is necessary, it would be horrible for any team and alliance to recieve penalties over something so simple.