crossroads 2014 all matches except 1 and 2 on the mavericks youtube page
Indeed. And lack of features isn’t a valid excuse - it’s open source, so submit a pull request if there’s a feature you want (or ask, somebody will know how to write it). Webcasting resources are spread thin enough as it is, and fragmenting them more won’t help.
Woah, Time to put out some fires.
Is WatchFIRSTnow just downloading other people/teams/organizational video and uploading them to their own Vimeo Account and “Archiving” events?
That is the source of some of the content yes. We are constantly looking for sources for videos. We are creating an archive so that there is one location to find all records.
Taking others’ work without giving credit or asking permission and declaring it as your own is neither gracious, professional, or legal.
We are not claiming any content as our own. In fact, we operate at a financial LOSS and have no source of income coming from the archive. We spent countless hours sorting and organizing content. We fund the project from our own pockets. To call what we are doing unprofessional is insulting.
Why not just submit videos to The Blue Alliance?
There are many problems with submitting videos to TBA. Most YouTube videos have their audio removed after a few months due to copyright claims. And all of the videos linked on TBA are subject to users deleting their YouTube accounts or removing videos.
- Bochek
Thank you for the link, It has been added to our todo list.
That is the source of some of the content yes. We are constantly looking for sources for videos. We are creating an archive so that there is one location to find all records.[/quote]
There are other ways to create a one-location archive of match footage instead of uploading them to your own account, as shown by The Blue Alliance.
It is also insulting to other teams to have their footage stolen from them, without having been asked permission or have been given any credit. I have seen that this has happened to 1676 on WatchFIRSTNow, and I had no knowledge of it until I went to their site and discovered their videos are our videos. That is footage that 1676 has spent countless time on sorting and organizing, and all that I see WatchFIRSTNow has done to it is downloaded it from YouTube using a third-party and then uploaded it to their Vimeo. Downloading and then uploading others’ videos to your own account without permission or mentioning their source can be seem by some as claiming the content as your own. Theft is theft in my mind, which I don’t view as professional. Just as you are offended when your work is downgraded, members on 1676 work hard and take pride in recording footage of each match, and won’t appreciate it when credit is taken from them.
In our 1,300+ videos on our YouTube Channel, most of which is match footage, we have not had a single video have it audio removed. But, the audio would still violate Fair Use on Vimeo, and could still be removed due to it being illegal. And, they are subject to being deleted/removed by users since they are their property, and thus the users retain the right to take down their work if they have their own reasons, which they should.
I’m not trying to put down your efforts, I am actually glad that people notice the problem of poor archiving and are leading the charge to step up the community’s efforts. I just don’t understand where the fairness is in taking other team’s footage without permission or recognition and posting it on your own account without their knowledge.
One of the interesting implications of the user interface design of a video hosting site is the varying emphasis on implied ownership of content, depending on how you access the videos. In some pages, many sites definitely give the appearance of ownership, while in others, it’s fairly clear that the content is hosted there because the uploader is asserting fair use.
Given the need to manage the content centrally (to make an archive consistent in function and appearance), uploading with a single account used only for that purpose is a good compromise. Definitely include an explicit credit to the original source, preferably including a link outside the video (so that if the embedding breaks, the content can still be found, and so that the source is clearly acknowledged).
Strictly speaking, it’s not quite theft (which is always a criminal act, by definition). Copyright infringement can be criminal (relatively rarely), but is more frequently a civil tort. And even then, copying without permission frequently isn’t copyright infringement, particularly if fair use or fair dealing are applicable.
As to the Vimeo FAQ item: that’s an oversimplification, likely for the purpose of saving (a lot of) work for Vimeo. They’re not explaining the limit of what’s legal, or even the limit of their policy; they’re explaining what they’d prefer that you do.
Regarding intellectual property rights, in the United States, there’s a fairly straightforward (though not perfect) procedure for giving notice of alleged infringement, taking the content down, protesting the takedown and reinstating the content, and then opening legal proceedings (if desired). Basically, fair use is a defence to copyright infringement, and if you assert it using that procedure, the owner has to sue you and convince a court that it is not fair use.
That approach, writ large, underlies the Internet Archive’s efforts to archive the entire public Internet at relatively frequent intervals. Their argument is that the value of having (what amounts to) a set of cultural artifacts frozen in time and archived by a neutral party outweighs the personal intellectual property rights of their creators, so long as the content is used for limited purposes that are justifiable under United States fair use law.
You might make similar arguments for this archive, though they might be somewhat weaker given the limited scope of WatchFIRSTNow.
St. Louis: (Thanks to 1094)
Have you tried contacting the TBA team to try and resolve these issues? My experience with them has been extremely positive and friendly.
I’m glad that you’re interested in solving these problems, but I don’t think splitting efforts is productive here, nor a good use of time and money.
Bochek,
You have Ads on your site below every video.(see attached picture)
My opinion is to ask and give credit where credit is due. As stated before maybe link to the original source. That way if the WatchFirstNow account (http://vimeo.com/user15100903) ever got deleted users would still be able to find the content.
I also find it interesting that none of the videos uploaded to your Vimeo account is public and the only way to view them is via the www.WatchFIRSTnow.com website that includes personal/private Ads.
-Clinton-
I don’t know about you guys, but I use TBA for almost everything. They’ve been around forever, have a lot of match archives, have the scores in a convenient manner on the page. I also haven’t heard a concrete reason to not use TBA. Please enlighten me if I’m wrong on that…
You have Ads on your site below every video.(see attached picture)
If you read what it says directly above the advertisement you would know that I receive no source of income from the ad.
My opinion is to ask and give credit where credit is due. As stated before maybe link to the original source.
I have plans to add a “video provided by” line to the page, but things take time. I am not a programmer, I pay to have the site developed.
I’m not sure why everyone is getting upset over this rather be grateful someone is taking the time out of THEIR own busy lives UNPAID (in Canada the Mentors don’t get paid FYI) to put together this wonderful archive. No legal laws were broken… besides international cyber laws a very limited… Yes perhaps the Watchfirstnow team should have asked but what’s done is done and this is a great database to be creating.
I think we are forgetting what FIRST is about that is working together to collaborate on ideas and information… aka SHARING VIDEOS to spread the word of FIRST and STEM.
Let’s look at the bigger picture here.
Thank you watchfirstnow Team!
How does one contact WatchFIRSTNow? Whenever I click on the ‘contact’ tab on the site nothing is displayed.
Here is what we recorded from Palmetto a couple weeks ago. I am currently uploading the matches I recorded from NC. I will post those when I have them
Palmetto:
At the end of last season I tried to contact TBA to try and collaboratively work on embedding our archive into their match results content. I never heard back from them on the topic.
Thanks! Its been added to our list. You should see it in the archive in the next few days.
Create an issue and bring it up there. Somebody can help you out there with the development process (I wouldn’t mind doing it, but it might not be for a while - I have a lot of other projects I’m working on and am still learning the TBA code base)
Hi Everyone!
Bochek, we must have lost your email to us. Please reach out to us on our mailing list at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/thebluealliance-developers and we’d love to get involved!
The Blue Alliance is collaborative project because we know we can’t do as many things as we’d like to with the time we have. Whether you’re a developer who can commit code, or you want to help suggest more videos, data, or other ideas (coordinating at https://www.facebook.com/groups/moardata/ ), we’d love to have your help!
Cheers,
Eugene
I think the reason people are reacting negatively to this is that teams like 1676 spend a lot of time recording, editing, and uploading their match videos. To have their videos copied with no credit to their original effort is what hurts. If another site started linking your videos without your consent I’m sure you’d be unhappy (even though they weren’t yours to begin with).
It’s great that WFN wants to create an archive. I’m all for it because I know personal youtube channels are not reliable and I’d love to be able to rewatch old matches 5-10 years from now. But I think the way to get 100% community support is to 1) Cite the source from your video and 2) Share the videos through TBA. If you need to pay someone to develop your website and really aren’t making money off your site, it sounds like a match made in heaven for you to partner with TBA. WFN provides cited backups of videos and TBA provides the infrastructure by which to share them. This would be a huge improvement to the current situation!
My 2 cents. Good luck 