Help. Electrical or Mechanical Engineering?

Other College & University Education
1

Hey everyone,

I’m currently a freshman in college, but I need some advice regarding my career interests. Given that I’m a robotics enthusiast by heart (like many of you are), I’m certain that that’s what I want to do for a living. However, I feel like I only have two choices in order to pursue this: electrical or mechanical engineering (Computer Science is there too, but programming is not my thing :o ). I’m currently an EE major, but that is obviously subject to change.

I’m aware that robotics requires a multidisciplinary approach, meaning that I have to pick which side I want to be on. I looked around CD and other sites (Yahoo Answers :smiley: ), but they fail to provide an in-depth discussion regarding the roles that electrical and mechanical engineers individually perform when it comes to robotics. “Electrical engineers deal with the electronics, and mechanical engineers deal with the mechanical aspect of the robot,” that’s as far as they go. It seems to me that mechanical engineers design and build the robot, while electrical engineers simply wire it up. Am I right? I tend to enjoy being involved in the design process and doing the drafting. Having that said, which discipline suits me better?

I’m fairly certain that many people involved in FIRST have been in a similar situation, so I’m hoping that this thread can serve as future reference for many. In fact, current high school students have come up to me with the same question. Needless to say, I failed to provide a thorough answer :frowning: .

I would really appreciate it if current engineers and/or college upperclassmen can provide some feedback. I’m looking for a list of what tasks electrical and mechanical engineers perform when it comes to robotics. Suggestions are more than welcome too. If the question is too broad, I’ll be more than happy to clarify.

Aldo Cruz

2

Your question is broad enough to bring chiefdelphi’s server to its knees if it were appropriately answered. That being said, I’ll take a crack at it.

Whichever ‘side’ you choose, your most important skill will be your ability to work with and communicate with ‘the other side’. Do enough cross-polinating courses that you will be able to fluently translate ME to EE and vis-a-versa. We all do the same stuff, we just call it by different names and do it on different orders of magnitude.

Second, recognize that it is a very grey spectrum, not too complementary colors.

Third, I’m really happy with being an EE. YMMV

3

You didn’t ask the corresponding question; but I’ll toss this thought out anyway - Earn both degrees?

4

This is a question that I am struggling with too. I like all intellectual, mind driving things, so mathematics, science, robotics, and engineering fit the bill perfectly. But one needs to be more specific than that when choosing a career. Here is what I have thought of as my options:

-Mechanical Engineer
-Electrical Engineer
-Computer Scientist (programmer, I guess)
-Applied Mathematician
-someone who works in Mechatronics (basically robotics, ME and EE combined)

Currently I am leaning mostly towards a mechanical engineer.

I really enjoy logical, intellectual things, like I said before, and I thrive in the logic of programming, so I am in that group on my team (also because I’m sure I have some level of OCD and I drive the other programmers nuts by cleaning up our code :slight_smile: ). However, I think personally something like applied mathematics or programming would be too much logistics and not applied and hands on enough for me as a job. That is why I am leaning on mechanical engineering. However, I have again wavered because ME might not have enough logic enough for me. So those are my thoughts on my situation.

Please understand that I am talking about the extremes in these fields. Like was said before, they are very gray and you end up doing very similar things in each. Depending on where you work and what your specific job is, you also may be doing many different types of tasks and projects. And of course people who have these jobs feel passionate about them and the aspects I mentioned above. They are not what make or break a career. But those extremes help define what differs between these careers, which is the point in choosing between them. I don’t want to end up saying "I like my job because it’s intellectual, but I wish I had taken up … because I would have liked more of … "

So, like me, I suggest that you keep researching to see which one has the best aspects for you. Joining FIRST is a great way to do so. Posting here is also a great idea. Ask the college(s) you are planning for. “Job shadow” someone. I personally can’t give too much knowledge or experience because I am deciding myself and haven’t worked in one of these jobs, but I hope that gives you some ideas.

gblake made a good point. Unfortunately, not everyone can pay for 2 degrees or have the time to learn each. There is a lot more to learn, know, and remember by doing so. And it might be better if you can focus your efforts and passions towards one area. If that sounds like it would work for you, go for it! I would be very excited if I were to do so, you know, the more the merrier. But personally I would not for the above reasons.

Hope that helps!

5

From a student who’s actually taking a course that’s listed as both ME and EE, and taught by one prof from each department, it’s the same sort of thing. I’m an ME, working with the EE design crew on the class project (non-robotic due to time and budget constraints). The main difference is that EEs tend to work with stuff that doesn’t need a lot of cutting and drilling and all that; it’s more assembly of parts that you get onto a board that you’ve sized appropriately; MEs tend to go from raw stock to parts and then assemble.

Both of them have to work together, though. When the MEs proposed a design that gave the EEs no space, the EE design and EE manufacturing said so, and both groups picked a new design concept. Then came the most dreaded words of all from both sides: “We can work with whatever you give us.”

It’s not MEs design and EEs wire. On the contrary, EEs and MEs have to design some things jointly, especially with regards to sensor mountings. The general design process is the same for both. EEs just have to know more how electricity flows through a given circuit, while the MEs focus on how this swinging beam is going to deal with that loading.

If your school has a mechatronics course further on, take it. I haven’t gotten to mine yet, but it’s coming…

6

Perhaps, you could get one degree…get a job…then get them to pay for half/all of the cost of the second one. That is my goal. I’m going for a ME degree, then hope some company will pay me to get an EE degree. If not, I’m happy with just ME. Another thing to know, the first year is exactly the same for both degrees.(at my college, can’t promise all)

7

I know at my school, a dual degree (as opposed to two physical degrees) is an option with basically the same course load, just less electives. Does your university have this option?

8

It may behoove you in your first semester taking major specific engineering classes (ie not first year engineering) to take classes from both majors. At least for me I very quickly found out where my aptitude lies once I took sophomore level ME and EE classes.

Echoing those above me, in the end your communication skills will be what matter; from my internship experience this past summer the people who could communicate are the ones returning this coming summer/the ones who got full time offers.

9

This is a fantastic thread. It’d be sweet if we could get some more degree holding engineers (of any variety) to chime in. Super sweet. :slight_smile:

10

Robo,
Try checking out the counseling office at your school. They have a variety of tests which you can take to determine where your interests lie. A person who is happy in their career will never work a day in their life. My son, who graduated from Bradley with an ME, went to interview for UL and was asked if he could read schematics and understand electrical specifications in a catalog. When he said “of course”, it turned out he was the only ME who had applied who could do that. Be good at one and versed in the other and you will be a double threat, and desirable.

11

Good thread and excellent questions, Aldo.

Before starting a small business, I worked at Delphi Electronics here in Kokomo, Indiana. When I hired in, the company was a part of GM, called Delco Electronics. The products Delphi Electronics made (and still make) are car radios, air bag sensing modules, engine control modules, and other automotive electronics. Many production lines at Delphi make 6,000-10,000 of these electronic devices each day. In order to do that, these assembly lines are lean and automated.

The department I worked in from 1992-2007 was called “Advanced Equipment Development”. We made the custom automation solutions for these production lines. Essentially, we were all robotics engineers, with different specialties. There were project managers, mechanical engineers, electrical engineers (we called them controls engineers), and vision engineers. All of us used software. None of us did any fabricating or wiring. We had a shop full of skilled-tradesman who did the hands-on work. (actually, if we did any of that work, the union would file a grievance against us)

I’ll describe what we did as we worked on a project:

Project Managers would need to lead the team of engineers working on the project, while being the main customer interface person and also managing all of the estimating and project costs. These managers were older engineers who worked as mechanical or controls engineers within the same department when they were younger. (I was never promoted to Project Manager, which is one of the many reasons why I left Delphi.)

Mechanical Engineers were responsible for these things on an automation (robotic) manufacturing cell:

  • Overall layout design, cycle time studies and process flow (while working closely with Project Manager and customer), using CAD designs.
  • Specification and choosing many of the components on the system, from sensors to pneumatics, and motor drives and enclosures. The Controls Engineer would request things, and the Project Manager would have to approve things, but the Mechanical Engineer had to CAD everything up, so they were the person who had to specify out most of the items. The engineering came into play when sizing devices and choosing the correct items.
  • Mechanical detail design of each aspect of all of the hardware. This was done using the same CAD as in the layout step, but in much more detail.
  • Mechanical detail design of custom plastic, metal, machined, formed, and fabricated parts to make the machine work. This may be as simple as a custom spacer to a 60" blanchard ground table with arrays of pockets and holes.
  • Assembly and detail prints had to be created and communicated to the rest of the design team (Project Manager, vision engineer, controls engineer), and also the customer
  • Any pneumatic schematic needed on the machine was done by the ME.
  • All fabricated parts had to be detailed and dimensioned, and then fabricated. If design mistakes were made and then realized during fabrication, the skilled tradesman making the part would be sure to tell the engineer (how that engineer reacted to that critique could kill or enhance the likelihood of the project to go well).
  • Assembly of the machine was done by skilled tradesmen, but overseen by the mechanical engineer.
  • Debug and fixes to the machine had to be managed by the team, and depending on the fix, the mechanical engineer had to be quick to make a design change.

Electrical Engineer (aka: Controls Engineer):

  • This engineer is an Electrical Engineer who could also write machine code on a PLC or PC - based software system, controlling the robot’s moves.
  • The electrical engineer had to make wiring schematics, showing the needed wiring for the machine. All of this wiring was done by an electrician.
  • This engineer would work very closely with an electrician, making sure all electrical aspects of the robot were documented on these schematics.
  • Electrical components, wire, electrical enclosures, sensors, computers, and any other digital or electrical components were specified by the electrical engineer AND mechanical engineer.
  • All of the code to make the machine move and operate was done by the electrical engineer. This meant that when all of the mechanical stuff was done, and management and customers are standing around, waiting on the machine to be completed, this engineer was the one they were waiting on. They were tweaking code on a PLC program, or a PC based robotic control program, using a variety of software packages.

Vision Engineer:

  • This engineer focused only on visual inspection hardware and software within the automated system.
  • Special vision software programs (Cognex, Matrox, and others) had to be mastered by this engineer, and they work closely with the vendors of these vision companies
  • This engineer has to know optics very well, along with various lighting techniques for automation situations
  • This engineer worked closely with the other engineers on the design team, communicating their needs to the ME, EE, and project manager.

This gives a bit more info on these types of robotics engineers. For smaller automation companies, one person may need to do all of these tasks. Larger companies have the luxury of keeping each person focused more on their specialty. For instance, in my 15 years at Delphi, I never had to do an electrical schematic or write any PLC code. At a smaller company, I would have needed to do those things (which, in retrospect, would have been good for me).

I hope this helps.

Andy Baker

12

I’m a Senior Electro-Mechanical Engineer at a small-ish aerospace company, in their R&D deparment. Here’s my story:

I’m about 15 years out of school, so theoretically that puts me solidly in mid-career. My degree is in Mechanical Engineering. In the 1980’s, I had been one of those kids who became interested in computers at an early age (about 12 or 13). Back then, there was a lot less abstraction (separation) between hardware and software, since a lot of the programming was done in assembly language. I was fascinated with video games, and wanted to learn how they worked. As a result I familiarized myself with both electronics hardware and software. In college I studied Mechanical Engineering because I was also interested in aircraft, rockets, etc. and those were much more mechanically-oriented than electronically-oriented. Career options at the time seemed to be about the same between EE and ME. Pursuing a dual degree wasn’t a viable option given the limited financial resouces available to me and the options at school I could afford to attend. I took as many CS and EE electives as I could instead. There weren’t any “mechatronics” programs in the US at the time that I’m aware of.

My first job after school was at IBM. There, I helped develop electromechanical products and bring them to market. 75% of the work I did was mechanical, but the product was having some EMI and software issues that I asked to try and help out with. I did very similar things at my next job, a company that made ATM machines and the modules that go inside of them. I gravitated towards the design and development of sensors, which always needed to be improved. I was still called a Mechanical Engineer, but I only spent about 65% of my time on purely mechanical things, with the rest being electronics related. At both places, I was the only person who crossed over between the two disciplines. Fortunately my managers saw some value in this, and supported me (although they took some policital risk in doing so).

At my current position I started with the title of Mechanical Engineer, but I was essentially hired to develop a specialized data acquisition system for cryogenic sensors. They were a relatively new company, and didn’t have enough work to support a full-time EE. I covered that need for several years. Eventually, when a internal job posting opened up with the title of “Electrical Engineer” I applied for it, which threw them for a loop: I had all of the required skills and experience for the position, but I had the “wrong” degree name (the position required a degree in engineering, not necessarily electrical engineering). They didn’t feel (nor did I, really) that the job title “Electrical Engineer” was appropriate for me because it gave the impression that the position holder would have a BSEE degree. Eventually we came up with the “Electro-Mechanical Engineer” job title. I’ve continued to do mechanical design work, but I’m the lead electronics and software guy for my branch of the company too. Interest-wise, I’m now in my sweet spot. In terms of long-term career objectives I’ve got some good options too, particularly in Systems Engineering (which requires the ability to speak the languages and understand the pains of the multiple engineering disciplines).

Assuming you can’t find an electromechanical or dual-degree program, my recommendation would be to enroll in a mechanical engineering program. I believe that it’s easier to transition towards electronics/software from mechanical than it is to go the other direction (flame suit on!). You won’t get exposure to some of the most esoteric topics in EE/CS, but you can still get a big chunk of the practical education if you take as many crossover classes as possible.

Ultimately, YOU are responsible for defining your career, and you can steer it in non-traditional directions if you like.

13

If we expect that you’ll use your degree to build robots, then MEs have more to do than EEs, since OUR robots come with a control system. I seriously doubt that’s all you’ll be doing in your career though.

It then becomes a matter of personal preference and aptitude:

An EE can deal with not being able to see and touch the workings of their systems. They need to model reality since the real reality (electricity) doesn’t lend itself to being seen.

An ME is more comfortable being able to see and feel their reality.

(I wrote those a few times, and they are still inadequate to convey what I mean)

I an an EE, but I took several ME courses because they were interesting to me. Not quite a double major, but there’s little ME work I don’t understand. As it turns out, I’m more interested in ME than EE, but knowing both helps. Many engineers never go into the design world, instead taking on support roles that are more satisfying.

14

This is very similar to how I describe my enjoyment in being a mechanical engineer. But, this does not include all ME’s. Thermodynamics, fluid power management, and process flow management all include mechanical engineering skills that don’t include being able to see and feel their reality.

When I was in college, I had the pleasure of working for GE Plastics. During my last term as a co-op, I held the job I liked the least: process optimization engineer. My job was to contain water waste within a chemical process. I tracked down valves and pipes and put together a project that reduced water waste. My project was successful, but I didn’t get to feel and touch what I was doing. I think that is why I didn’t enjoy this job.

One of the very important things about deciding on what sort of engineer you wish to be is DECIDING WHAT YOU DON’T LIKE TO DO. The more experience a person has on a competition robotics team, within school projects, at internships and co-op jobs they have, the more they will figure out what they like and DON’T like.

I am fortunate that I figured out what I liked and did not like before graduating from college. The more experience a person gets, the easier this is to figure out.

Andy

15

Thank you Andy for coming closer to what I was trying to say.

The idea here is to get a job doing what you enjoy. Knowing what you don’t enjoy is a step towards finding what you do enjoy. It took me years to discover what I really enjoyed, and now that I have, life is good.:slight_smile:

16

Hi Aldo,

Freshman year, in any engineering discipline is a challange because talking Calculus, Chemistry and Physics doesnt lead to help in the decision as to what type of engineer will I be when I grow up.

With that said, engineering, no matter what you decide, teaches you to solve problems. As a mechanical engineer, I worked with large industrial robots and small laboratory robots throughout my career. I had to learn more about electrical engineering, computer programming and machining on the job. Even as a mechanical engineer, I had to learn about semiconductor layout and biomedical implants. You never know what will come up.

So my advice - no matter what engineering you decide on, take courses in the other disciplines as your electives - even programming.

High level engineering classes in both areas require math - lots of math. So as you work through your math courses - be as strong as you can be, ask questions. These will support you through all your college years.

Also, see if there are professional engineering groups that meet at your college such as IEEE or ASME. Also visit a professional SolidWorks users group http://www.swugn.org/ There are over 170 groups so see if there is one close to you. I love going to a user group meeting because I am amazed at the cool stuff engineers design - not just robots.

Marie

17

Mechanical Engineer (BSME and MSME).

I would like to add a little to this point. Chances are no matter where you work, there will be things you do not like about the job. That is part of why you get paid instead of paying them (job vs. vacation). That being said, if you “Don’t like” the majority of your job it will be difficult to be successful at it as you will likely get burned out. If you hate your job and just do it because of the money, you are pr_______g yourself. You can have noble reasons (like supporting a family), but strive to find a job you enjoy more often then not.

One important thing to bring to the table is attitude. I had a friend that worked with me at a major auto company. We were watching a Discovery special about the development of a motorcycle including all the testing and development (wind tunnel, vibration, suspension, aero-thermal work…). He was not particularly excited about his job and watched this special and said, “Man why can’t i do that stuff”. I looked at him and said, “you have done every single one of those tests, they just aren’t showing the paperwork.”

Another important aspect that has been partially neglected was the role of a researcher vs. product design/development. Early on in my career I was certain I just wanted to do upfront design and invent things. In a research or advanced design role, you often do a lot of work proving out things that don’t work. This is great for some people, but not for others. Some people need to see their work put into production. After doing some design, I did Vibration testing for a few years. My job was a bit like those medical dramas. The development group would bring me a prototype car that had a noise or vibration problem and I would run a series of tests to try to find the problem, and then work on a resolution. I loved this job (by the way I was forced into and not excited to take the job). Ironically I was not particularly fond of my systems (vibrations) class at Purdue. I did like the prof. I got good grades. I just didn’t enjoy the dry theoretical nature of the course. What the profs don’t tell you is that there are excellent software solutions that do the fourier transforms for you. You need to understand the difference between time domain, frequency domain,… But rarely did I personally have to do a Laplace transform. Instead I got to drive around in cars with sensors all over recreating issues and then weed through the data looking for clues. The important take-aways are:
I never thought I would be doing that job in college.
I never would have signed up for that job.
I really enjoyed that job 95% of the time.

Back to college curriculum decisions, here were my regrets.

I did not take Controls II (mechatronics). I did not take Economics. I did not take Entrepensurship. I wished I would have. One of the beautiful things about our world is that I have been able to do some of these on my own (or with a team). This is a large part of why “I” do FIRST.

My favorite college courses: Undergrad was Vehicle Dynamics. Grad school was an EE course on Electric vehicles.