Historic FIRST data wanted

FIRST General Forum
#20

From my perspective as a student, it was the ***only ***event. At the time I don’t know if I was even aware that there was an event in New Hampshire. The whole premise of our school’s involvement was “hey, we’re going to go compete at this robotics event at Disney World, want to join?” It’s also important to remember that in 1995, there was only something like 38 teams at Epcot, so even the “Championship Event” was small compared to many regionals today.

I can definitely say it was not a science fair atmosphere. Really, the whole thing felt the same back then as it does today. The main difference was that there was no Chief Delphi, and most people were not “online”, so the build season (at least for our team) was done in almost complete isolation (but we definitely were aware that we were working towards the goal of competing in Florida). In 1995 the very first time we saw another robot was after the build season was over and we had a demo with the other team in our city at the mall (FIRST let us keep our robot past the ship date for that event as I recall - we had to do something similar to the “bag & tag” that they have now with someone else locking our crate).

The event at Epcot even back in those years was basically the same as they are today. If anything, the atmosphere was even more fun than it is now, as everything was outside, bright & sunny. Teams had brightly-colored t-shirts, there was loud music being played, and people did the Macarena (some things never change, I guess).

#21

That was true for our school all the way thru 2002. Disney was a big student draw.

#22

I’m pretty sure I recall that in my (and SPAM’s) rookie year in 1998, if we had gone to a regional we had to ship the robot on a certain day, but since we were just going to the championship we didn’t have to ship it until 2 days later. And 2 extra days was a really big deal. Does anyone else remember this?

OK I found it in the game rules on 358’s website - it was actually 3 days!!! Going to a regional you had to ship on Tuesday, going to the championship only you got until Friday.

#23

Sorry if I ever come off as rude (preemptive, if not), but I do love this perspective as well. Looking back always provides a clear thought process on what was done and how it can be done differently. Though, I may become over analytical at times and focus solely on what information is available, and act like it’s a logic puzzle. That’s just me.

I will definitely say one thing, though… We need loads more DATA!! Just like in Numb3rs, the more data we have, the more accurate our results/findings will become. So, looking back on what has been said, I am drawing these conclusions (Mark, correct me and add more where you see fit). We need:

  • more official FIRST documentation (though we can’t rely on it entirely because it is incomplete)
  • more data from teams on their historic performances (preferably with written or photographic evidence)
  • as many accounts of what happened as possible (I know it’s been a long
    time) – there’s gotta be rock solid facts in there somewhere.

Would anyone like to offer up a way to collect data and sort through it all, as a group?

#24

Slightly off topic. Be careful with this line of thinking. Too much information can be just as bad as too little information as it can obscure trends.

#25

Don’t forget that permanent teams numbers were not used in the early years. I think they were assigned in the order that a team registered. In 1996 we attended the New Hampshire regional winning Rookie All Star and then went to Disney. In 1997 we attended the new Motorola Midwest Regional and I think our team number was 89 that year. (That robot is in the FIRST museum) We also attended Nationals. We continue to attend the Midwest Regional and Champs and generally one other regional.

#26

Al, you make a great point. To alleviate this problem for any season prior to 1998, I’ve been tracking the official (long) team names instead of team numbers. I’ve stuck mainly with tracking the schools involved on each team, as sponsors can change radically between years. And I’ve even found schools that were spelt differently between years (probably correcting spelling mistakes). I’ve got that covered :slight_smile:

#27

Statistical analysis, anyone? Just kidding. Thanks for bringing that up, Andrew. I’d actually rather we have too much information. I would hopefully like us to cross-examine documents to find all the similarities and differences between them. Then, if the percentages/stats are significant enough to prove the claim, take each into consideration.

Still, if you feel you have any better ideas, present them. I’m sure all of us would be more than willing to find the best approach possible.

#28

As I understand it, the teams were numbered alphabetically by official team name. That name started with the team’s primary sponsor. The year numbers became permanent, The Juggernauts were team 1 based on their sponsorship by a company starting with a numeral rather than a letter. Delphi-sponsored teams ended up in the 40s. The X-Cats, sponsored by Xerox, got 191.

#29

Alan,
I do know that Motorola teams were all in the 100 range when numbers became permanent. At that time, there were three local teams numbered 111, 112, 113. 108 is another Mot team from Plantation, FL, which implies there were 109 and 110 Mot teams as well. I know there were Mot teams in Ohio and Texas at one time.
Quentin,
For the record, our team name is spelled WildStang to ID the original two schools from which the team drew students from. We use the same grammar as ‘deer’ so there is never WildStangs even if there are more than one.

#30

1998 was the year the numbers became permanent. You can see the original 1998 team list here:

http://web.archive.org/web/19980529072224/http://www.usfirst.org/1998comp/teamlist.html

Clearly, numbers were assigned in alphabetical order according to sponsor at some point during the registration, but also there are a number at the bottom after X-Cats who don’t fit the pattern, presumably because they registered after the initial list was sorted and numbers were assigned.

#31

Team 82 on that list got a different number the next year for some reason–I think that was the year that their primary sponsor changed names. They’re now known as 330.

#32

Permanently assigned numbers were used in 1998 forward from the info I have gathered as well.

Buzz was formed in 1995 but didn’t compete until 1996 (the declared rookie year) and started for two years as team 51 (good number, for us and the current team using it!). There are several teams with lower numbers that were started later than some higher-numbered more senior teams, but we know 51 given up as the result of re-numbering by request.

In 1998 our sponsor wanted sequential numbers for their first 3 sponsored teams in existance at that time: 175 Buzz in Enfield, CT, 176 Aces High across the river from Enfield in Suffield CT, and a neighboring town just south of us is 177 Bobcats in South Windsor.

We too have a ton of stuff - I will look and see what I can find in a week or so when we next have our Buzz meeting.

#33

In 1998, team numbers were made semi-permanent. If a team’s official team name (sponsors and/or schools) changed for 1999, there is a high probability they were assigned a new number. Also, some teams that took the 1999 season off and came back in 2000 could have been assigned a new number. (See last sheet of spreadsheet linked in the first post of the topic)

#34

Not applicable to 330; they were at SVR and Nationals in 1999 (and 2000).

#35

As I understand it, the teams were numbered alphabetically by official team name. That name started with the team’s primary sponsor. The year numbers became permanent, The Juggernauts were team 1 based on their sponsorship by a company starting with a numeral rather than a letter. Delphi-sponsored teams ended up in the 40s. The X-Cats, sponsored by Xerox, got 191.[/quote]

Al might have been speaking of numbers being assigned sequentially in earlier years. That still happens to FLL teams. Rookie FRC teams are assigned sequentially too.

As Alan notes, when permanent numbers were assigned, the existing teams were assigned in alphabetic (alphanumeric) order. Another series of teams were the GM teams, in the 60’s.

#36

This is correct. In 1998 I was on team 162 (TRW Automotive and Farmington Hills Harrison High School). For 1999 FH Harrison dropped out and we (TRW) partnered with Walled Lake Schools and the number changed to 308, which is still in existence.

#37

Those numbers would also support the theory that Walled Lake was considered a rookie team in 1999, and thus got a new number.

#38

Yeah, I probably should have noted by “changing schools in the official team name” I meant, adding or dropping schools; not a sponsor dropping a school and picking up another.

#39

The Sponsor block was all the UTC Teams in existance back in 1998, 173-181.
This includes the Carrier sponsored 174 from Syracuse and The Pratt and Whitney Florida teams 179 and 180.

FYI
You can see an elim bracket from the NE regional in 98 here to verify some of this
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22117

And from Nationals here:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22268
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22269
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/22270