somewhere when you designed your bot, you chose to make it fast or powerfull (geared up or geared down).
If someone can pin you, they must be more powerfull - but if you are faster, you should be able to get away from them the instant they back off.
sounds like your bot was both slower and weaker. I dont know what you used for drivetrain motors.
The only consolation I can offer is that while you were pinned you could do nothing, but neither could they.
But this is part of the design process - if someone builds a better machine than you, they are going to be able to dominate the field, and win. Whether that means getting boxes faster than you, or knocking your stacks down faster than you can knock their down, or pushing you off the top of the ramp
the better robot will still dominate the field!
Experience is a bitter teacher - first you are tested, then you learn the lesson :c)
another way to look at this - the 12V battery and 120A breaker they gave us this year means your bot can output about 1440Watts of power
thats about 2 horsepower being released by each bot on the field (if they design a bot that can use it all)
to put that into perspective, an 18 yr old male athlete can produce about 1/3 HP for a short duration of time. That means EACH robot is like 6 eighteen year old guys on the field (pushing things, moving containers, running around)
and there are 4 bots on the field - so thats like having 24 young men going wild for 2 minutes - thats how much power is available during a match.
so if someone could pin you repeatedly, and you could not push, shove, knock yourself free, or run away, you have no-one to blame but your own design team.
However the pin rule in some matches was grossly misused. There were cases on some west coast competitions where one team pinned another for approx. 30 seconds and backed up on the ramp for a win. There have been previous posts saying live with the rule but in my opinion that pinning rule was a mistake. In some team’s interpretations, it allowed for a disabling of another robot putting an unfair advantage of 2 vs. 1. This rule also put less emphasis on trying to work on knocking down the boxes or opponents stacks which was the main goal of the entire FIRST event. Getting up the ramp was important for the 25 points however pinning another robot just to get up the ramp shows a lack of creativity on some team’s part. This isn’t Battle Bots here people. We were assigned a problem to solve using fair tactics. I can see blocking another robot to defend a stack on the bottom of the ramp but to actively search and pin makes that team a whole lot weaker.
yes but pinning that long is also illegal and should have had multiple flags thrown but none were. so i partially blame some of the judges for their lack of awareness on that crucial rule.
Why is everyone complaining… you all who got pinned made a less powerful robot than the other teams…that is noones fault but your own. If you are smart about driving, you will never get pinned. If you had made the more pwoerful robot, I guarentee you would think this rule was fair…
*Originally posted by Cory *
**Why is everyone complaining… you all who got pinned made a less powerful robot than the other teams…that is noones fault but your own. If you are smart about driving, you will never get pinned. If you had made the more powerful robot, I guarantee you would think this rule was fair…
Cory **
Agreed, moaning and complaining won’t help you. If you cant push away or get out in the 3 feet given after the 10 seconds are up you are SOL and you better come up with something better in the future
What I am saying is that our team was never pinned but other teams were illegally pinned. When two robots of equal power based upon previous matches go against each other and one has a slight advantage of position and keeps the other pinned (both robots touching each other) for more than 15 seconds, that is definitely illegal move. it doesn’t matter if your team has the best drivers, if they are pinned illegally, it is not fair. and by saying,“tough live with a rule that can be used unfairly” shows that probably your team did exactly what was described above.
*Originally posted by codeoftherobot * When two robots of equal power based upon previous matches go against each other and one has a slight advantage of position and keeps the other pinned (both robots touching each other) for more than 15 seconds, that is definitely illegal move.
IF someone was pinned for more than 15 seconds, then yes it was illegal. When other teams do things that you think are not right it sucks - but it will happen. It happens to everyone. The best thing you can do is to try not to act like that to other teams, and hope that setting a precedent of good behavior will cause these other teams to follow your lead.
**and by saying,“tough live with a rule that can be used unfairly” shows that probably your team did exactly what was described above. **
Please watch what you say. Cheap shots like this will only create a negative image of you and possibly your team. Maintaining a good image is important in a competition where teams have to pick other teams to compete with them and vote on each other’s entries for awards.
*Originally posted by Dave Flowerday *
**IF someone was pinned for more than 15 seconds, then yes it was illegal. When other teams do things that you think are not right it sucks - but it will happen. It happens to everyone. The best thing you can do is to try not to act like that to other teams, and hope that setting a precedent of good behavior will cause these other teams to follow your lead.
Please watch what you say. Cheap shots like this will only create a negative image of you and possibly your team. Maintaining a good image is important in a competition where teams have to pick other teams to compete with them and vote on each other’s entries for awards. **
I must apologize for my harsh tone. My final comment was made out of anger towards those who I felt were not listening outside their preconceived notion. In my attempt to get my point across I have angered some people and I apologize for my error. It is not like me to become angry however when people refuse to listen to any other reason without thought, I became angry in that case. Hopefully no one takes permanent offense to my actions.
*Originally posted by codeoftherobot *
**Hopefully no one takes permanent offense to my actions. **
I take offense because you imply that I am " refusing to listen to any other reason without thought."
Are you sorry, or are you just pretending? Here’s a hint: If you are going to apoligize, don’t generalize and bash people in the process. Particularly with the nationals coming up next week.
Because I can’t apologize in person and because I cannot express my emotions completely through a keyboard, I will end in saying that I apologize again for continuing to offend people. I have my opinion about the rule and you have yours and I shall respect that in the future without harsh criticism. If you accept my apology, I appreciate it.
There was no violation of any rules so if you complain, you’re just whining. Whoopdeedo, someone got pinned; so let them go and build a better strong robot.
The greater majority of teams out there are boxes; if you can’t stack or do something else unique, at least build a strong drive.
FIRST won’t change this rule now and it’s a good rule to stick with for future years. It works as a tradeoff for many aspects of the game which try to balance the effectiveness of different types of strategy.
Oh yeah; I’d love to see that video of the pinning. I’ll sit here contently in front of my monitor and cheer on the stronger robot while appreciating its drive train and strength. And I’ll laugh at the every weak robot that I see from now on, not because it’s getting pinned, but because someone thought it was unfair that a stronger robot could use its strength for something. Waaaaaaaaaaahhhhh
Two speed gearboxes work…but on pinning…I saw at UCF, one team was in the corner and the other was defending its stack from the other team. Now that was tricky…to do both without knocking the stack over. Its not cheap! But think about pinning ties down one of the opposing alliance. Often the one with the best traction/power. That leaves, hopefully for your partner (of their bot runs) to deal with the remaining opponent. This may allow you to gain control of the ramp. Like the saying in War, the plan is only as good until the first shot. And reconassiance (scouting other teams in our case) is seldom wasted. I remember my Freshman year, I found out that one team had a brake at the last minute and ran to the stage to tell our Coach cause we were up gainst them next match. But pinning…try to avoid it. But sometimes you can make a break and actually use it to your advantage.
But here, being on SPAM, we have Speed, Power, and Maneuverability.
