# How do divisions work at champs?

I know this may be a stupid question, but how does FIRST put the divisions together? I mean, what determines what division you are put in?

Pseudo-random magic.

Oh ok so it IS random… thanks
I wasn’t sure and I was really curious. Excuse my noobishness:D

It’s magic. I don’t know how it works, I doubt many people do (besides the folks at FIRST who make it happen), and I’ve never seen a reasonable explanation.

Very good question, but I doubt you’ll get a good answer.

Frank made a blog post earlier this year explaining how they assign teams to divisions. Im sure it will change next year though.

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/blog-Divisions-and-Preliminary-Match-Schedules

I doubt it will change much as it makes perfect sense. Distribute the rookies evenly, distribute the veterans evenly. The only tweak they’d need is to change it from counting from 1 to 4 to counting from 1 to 8, or however many divisions there are in 2015.

It’s pretty hard, probably impossible, to hack that system to guarantee you end up in any particular division.

Anyone watch the order of teams who have already registered carefully enough to work out who’s in which division if we have 6 or 8 divisions.

I believe Frank did say somewhere that they were looking into having between 6 and 8 divisions…I’m still hoping for 7.

I’m still confused how 6 would work for Einstein… Do you seed one division over the others, do you round robin between all then an NFL style elims? It just seems so confusing

We’ll find out. FIRST

has done some odd brackets before…Might run double-elimination round-robin. Lose two, you’re out. Last two standing play best two out of three.

That said, I’d suspect 8 divisions of about 75 teams each would be the better way to handle this. Works better on Einstein.

I’d really like to see this. Especially if they have two Einstein fields and they play back to back matches (one resets while the other plays). Otherwise, a double length Einstein might be too much.

Rookies can’t register yet, and they get assigned to divisions first*.

*Assuming divisions are assigned using the same system as last year as described by Frank.

Correct, but assuming it is done the same way every 8th* prequalified team to register would be in the same division.

*assuming 8 divisions, can substitute for any number of divisions.

I agree. Double elimination would be very interesting…would probably let us see more unique matchups.

Frank Said in his blog that 8 divisions would likely be too many just by the sheer size 4 additional fields would take up. Even with FTC

gone it doesn’t save that much room.

Vex has done a number of divisions that isn’t a power of 2 for their equivalent of Einstein. I believe they used a round robin format of some sort.

If you get 6 divisions, it seems to me the only “fair” way to do it would be a round-robin of some kind. Otherwise, you would have to get a bit complicated with your brackets because a bye gives some divisions an inherent “advantage” over the others.

I put “fair” and “advantage” in quotes because it wouldn’t be any fault of the teams, and also that even if the bracket did have a bye, it would probably just be a question of semantics as to who were quarterfinalists (losing in the Ro6 vs the Ro4).

I really hope they do 8 divisions. I personally think a simple, single elimination bracket makes a lot more sense for Einstein. Round Robin doesn’t make each match feel as awesome to me. Plus with a single elimination tournament it’s much easier to say you were a Semifinalist or something like that, instead of saying you had such and such a record on Einstein.

I honestly would be a fan of round-robin just for the novelty factor - that would be a lot of fun matches! I’m worried about the timing, though - 15 matches plus a potential tiebreaker match or matches (we’re not going to decide the champion on tiebreakers, are we?) would be a lot. So would 8 divisions, though…

I could see them doing round-robin one year and then bumping it up to a full 8-team bracket the next year (due to being more comfortable with the amount of teams/ the inevitable complaining).