How do you get your other ball

the first ball is on your side and you can reach it but then the other ball you can not have your arm extended because the rack where the ball is sitting in the opponents home zone <G36> so how do you get that ball

i think that may only refer to at the end of the game…im pretty sure you can knock it down anytime during the game

I had the same though and posted this in a different thread, the robot in the game animation does it, are we not allowed to?

I am predicting a rule change in this area.

A few other ways the ball could get down are:

  1. Use your other ball to make contact and knock it down,
  2. The other team will want to get it down so your team doesn’t get the 12 point bonus at the end of the match for having your ball still up there.

These are ways to get it down but I really think that they will change something.

you can but you wil get a 10 point deduction

yeah i think theres going to be several rule changes.

a lot of ideas r contradicting…

What if this isn’t a mistake on the GDC’s part? What if <G36> is intentionally worded? This could yield some very interesting game strategies.
1)Leaving the trackball up there could yield the alliance a 12-point endgame bonus.
2)The opposing alliance could accidentally knock down the trackball either by attempting a hurdle or by attempting to dislodge their own trackball
3)The opposing alliance could dislodge the ball during teleoperated period, giving zero removal points but secure in the notion that it would take seven trackball-laps to outscore the 12 point endgame bonus
4)Assuming the opposing alliance is going to be launching hurdle attempts with a ten-pound trackball, it may be in a team’s best interest not to have an extended (and most likely unprotected) appendage near the overpass

Well it says that a robot shall not be taller than 6’, It never says that the robot can not be above the 6ft plane. Lets say the ground were higher, or… it was on a ramp-bot. Then the bot on top could be under 72" tall (NOT under 72" from the ground) and still have some room to play with. Now that’s an interesting strategy, I think. That’s also probably a strategy that nobody’ll take (enough with ramps already) and would still get you penalized (for being a smarta – yeah).

Especially since one of the dictionary definitions of height is “The distance from the bottom to the top of an object.”

Also, knocking off opponent’s ball = they lose 12 points. Doing it in their home stretch, you lose 10. If the scores are even, that’s a decent strategy. It’d win a match, that’s for sure.

woahhh that is a very sophisticated strategy you got there :wink:
that would enable your team to also score on both overpasses during the endgame (unless you just score on your own side of the overpass…)

KOP + Regional Registration: $5000.
New Trackballs 'casue you popped the one in the KOP: $12.
Thinking out strategies like a FIRSTer: Priceless.

There’s some things money CAN buy. For everything else, there’s FIRST.

How about the flag? The flag must be placed so it is 75 inches from the ground. Last time I checked, that is taller than 6’. So that means your robot could never do a lap …

I expect some clarifications on this rule. I will ask a question as soon as the Q & A is up.

Unfortunately, the wedge rule is back and very clear in <R19>: “Neither offensive nor defensive wedges are allowed”

The arena is divided into four distinct areas, movement between areas is counterclockwise (G42). Once you are in an area, you should be able to move in any direction you want, just leave a passing lane. You could go back and knock the trackball down from the other side since you can not be over six feet tall while in opposing alliances home stretch (G36).

Boiler nailed it, if the trackball stays up for the entire match, it becomes 12 points.

I would like to see a definition of “in” regarding rule G36. Do the boundaries of the home stretch extend to the ceiling? Meaning that if any part of your robot passes over the home stretch without touching the floor, would it be considered a violation? G22 talks about breaking the plane being a violation, rule G36 does not.

The flag has never been considered a part of the robot. Even so, I doubt it would have enough strength to move the ball off the overpass.

I expect some clarifications on this rule. I will ask a question as soon as the Q & A is up.

Unless I beat you to it.

My thought:
The overpass is 78". The ball in the track of the overpass sits down approximately 8". This means you have to reach 70" to touch the ball. You are permitted to be 72". Those two inches need to be really important.

I welcome any input…

I’m pretty sure the flag doesn’t count toward the height.

Correct, as per <R13>, emphasis mine:

<R13> For the purposes of determining compliance with the weight and volume limitations
specified in Rule <R11>, these items are NOT considered part of the ROBOT and are NOT
included in the weight and volume assessment of the ROBOT:
• The 12V battery and its associated half of the Anderson cable quick
connect/disconnect pair (including no more than 12 inches of cable per leg, the
associated cable lugs, connecting bolts, and insulating electrical tape) on board the
ROBOT,
• Any STANDARD BUMPER assemblies included on the ROBOT that are in
compliance with Rule <R08>, up to a maximum of 15 pounds,
The FLAG is not considered part of the ROBOT (however, the flag holder specified in
Rule <R17> IS considered part of the ROBOT, and is included in the ROBOT weight
and volume),

• The OPERATOR CONSOLE.
NOTE

  • Weight limit excludes the 12 volt
    battery and Anderson cable half.
  • Weight and volume limits exclude any
    STANDARD BUMPERS constructed
    consistent with Rule <R08>.
  • Weight and height limits exclude the FLAG
    However, for all other purposes the items listed above are considered part of the ROBOT
    and must comply with all other applicable rules and requirements.

You ONLY have to be under 6’ in the opposing alliance HOMEZONES. Example below.

If a team is on the BLUE ALLIANCE, they can be above 6’ everywhere except in the RED HOMEZONE.

If a team is on the RED ALLIANCE, they can be above 6’ everywhere except in the BLUE HOMEZONE.

It is 100% legal to knock the ball BACKWARDS off of the OVERPASS(clockwise). So pass through the opposing HOMEZONE, pause, knock ball BACKWARDS, and go.

Check out <G13>:

<G13> A TRACKBALL that has CROSSED its own FINISH LINE must CROSS the opponent’s
FINISH LINE before it can score by CROSSING its own FINISH LINE again.

EDIT: Nevermind, I think I get what you’re saying now.

If the trackball is still on the OVERPASS, on the opposing side, it has not crossed ANY lines. Knocking it backward would be completely legal at the beginning of a match, or initially just to get the ball down for your own use.

People are concerned that the track ball that is on the side opposite of theirs is impossible to retrieve without breaking rules.