How many pieces should a robot be able to score to be competitive this year? What is a competitive cycle time from the double substation?

Hey everyone, my team has a Week 2 event coming up and I just wanted to see how we are going to stack up based on what we’ve seen so far. What is the threshold for a team to be considered average-to-good this year? How many pieces should a robot try for in autonomous to be competitive?

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I can’t speak for teleop cycles, but I daresay that a consistent center [score preload high+mobility+engage] would put you in the top 10% or so of an average event.

(Where an average event is defined as the one I happened to attend, FIM Kettering 1)


An auto balance was pretty huge for teams in Mishawaka this weekend to rank high. We were getting 1 in auto plus 5-6 in quals and might have been on the higher end. A solid 3-4 cycles was pretty good for teams.


6045 is setting a high bar right now for double substation cycles.

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Based on FIM Escanaba, assuming that “competitive” means you have a real shot at winning matches:

  • Auto: at least 1, but grabbing (and maybe scoring) a 2nd or balancing is a massive plus
  • Teleop: 3-4, but the more the better (I think we maxed out around 7 or 8 in a few great matches, but early quals were around 4); the third bot on our playoff alliance could do about 3 in teleop

Also if you can fill a niche that others don’t (floor pickup, double substation shelf pickup, single substation cone pickup) that really helps with the alliance’s scoring capacity.


We were in the range of 7-10 game pieces scored per match throughout the event. We tried to always leave the center game pieces for our alliance partners (for various reasons) which meant we ended up going to the Double Substation almost exclusively. I definitely don’t think those numbers are required to be competitive.

Our playoff alliance partner, 4011, was running 3-4 high cycles per match and that was well above the competitive threshold at our event.

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What are you qualifying as competitive threshold for your event? The event average?

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I was thinking scoring average of the 24th best offensive robot. If I remember correctly that threshold was equivalent to 2.5 high pieces per match.


Interesting I expected the 24th best team at a 60 team event to be better than at my 35 team event. Our 24th best game piece scorer was good for 1.3 game pieces low, in terms of points that makes the South Florida team good for 2.6 points while the Lake Superior team is good for 12.5 points. Had this team from Lake Superior been at South Florida they would have been the 10th best team at game piece points.

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Is this for the entire match or just teleop? I read Ryan’s post as for the full match.

Entire match for me. South Florida did not have many reliable auto game piece scorers and our 24th and 10th best both happened to be teams who dropped their preload for someone else and then balanced in auto. Since I don’t know the split for Ryan (2 tele and 0.5 auto, 1.5 tele and 1 auto) I went low ball (all tele) for his team example since any amount of the 2.5 being auto just increases the score and ranking.

I think if you score 3 game pieces every match, you are going to the playoffs in week 2 events.

Thebluealliance has an insight for each regonal of the total game piece count. Every week gets more competitive as teams have had additional time to tune their bots.

Cycles are normally in teleop. Not trying to be critical. I watched 4 videos at random and your team averaged 2 mid field cycles and 2 shelf cycles during teleop. For week 1 this was probably better than average.

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I want to mention that 8382 (the third bot) was a top 10 scorer at the event (by our scouting, yours could disagree) - they are not a realistic standard for a third bot to be held to in an average event IMO

FWIW, this was why we took you guys off our pick list. If you can figure out how to lower your CoG I suspect you’ll do very well at Wisconsin!


Ditto on the CoG. As an alliance captain, we would be hesitant on a bot that has such a high CoG. A bot that falls over can no longer help their alliance.

From FiM Calvin, It seemed we had a couple top bots then a large tier or two below them. Here is where they land from our data:

Total points
Top- 39.8
8th - 30.0
16th - 21.9
24th - 15.4

Tele Grid points
Top- 20.4
8th - 12.8
16th - 8.0
24th - 6.0

Auto Points
Top- 15.9
8th - 9.08
16th - 6.8
24th - 3.8

Note these aren’t neccesarily the same team in each of these categories, just the n-th largest value in a sort of each column.

Speaking of high COG, it looked like the Circuit Breakers (696) sawed off their upper structure for the playoffs.
Was there a discussion prior to them being picked or was it an after picking decision?

Do these include link points? If so, how are you assigning links to individual robots?

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no link points, strictly game piece value.

Not in this sheet we parsed the TBA for total game pieces/Links and assigned that Link efficiency % tot teams, but didn’t use it in the numbers, we used it namely for a should we have a stategy conversation with this team. For reference at Calvin it ranged from 79% to 18% in alliance game pieces in links.

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