Posted by Mike Kulibaba. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Student on team #88, TJ², from Bridgewater-Raynham Regional and Johnson and Johnson.
Posted on 1/16/2000 11:49 PM MST
I haven’t watched the video yet but can anyone tell me how many robots they think could fit on the bar at one time? can only 1? all 4? Can 2 fit on but it will take some very high tech movements? I’m sure when I’ll watch the video I’ll have a better idea but I just wanted your input. thanks and good luck to everyone
Kuli
Posted by Samuel Lindhorst.
Engineer on team #240, Mach Vee, from Jefferson High School and Visteon.
Posted on 1/17/2000 3:41 AM MST
In Reply to: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Mike Kulibaba on 1/16/2000 11:49 PM MST:
: I haven’t watched the video yet but can anyone tell me how many robots they think could fit on the bar at one time? can only 1? all 4? Can 2 fit on but it will take some very high tech movements? I’m sure when I’ll watch the video I’ll have a better idea but I just wanted your input. thanks and good luck to everyone
: Kuli
Three at most if they are wedged in tight (30’X3=90’ - bar is 96’). OTOH, if they are 36’ wide robots just 2.
hmmm… assuming robots are either 30’ or 36’ wide…
2 30’ + 1 36’ = 96’ unlikely - someone’s going to have to look like a wedge.
3 30’ = 90’ if they are ‘kindler gentler’ robots.
2 36’ = 72’ a good strategy for a team to clog the center, or let the other guys give you 30 more points.
1 36’ right in center and capable of gripping bar so he can’t be slid along bar would clog up center for other 36’ robots, but one side or the other a 30’ could get by, unless something protrudes… :o)
The Holy Grail of center clogging - the 60’ long robot hanging sideways, with protrusions and a good grip.
I don’t see a realistic way to get to 4 robots, and I think 3 are unlikely, so I think most matches are going to be 1 or 2 robots hanging.
This gets me thinking about a robot designed to sieze and control the bar. Interesting, da? Possibly a Juggernaut strategy, hardly capable of winning a match on it’s own but the Perfect Companion for a high scoring qualifier winner, and gets picked for alliances all the time… Build a junkyard dog for the center bar.
Donno, I think I’m leaning towards the ‘goes off in the corner and quietly boosts itself up on 3 balls’ solution, and let those crazies in the center tear up their equipment… :o)
Sam
Posted by Jerry Eckert.
Engineer from Looking for a team in Raleigh, NC sponsored by .
Posted on 1/17/2000 3:59 AM MST
In Reply to: Re: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 1/17/2000 3:41 AM MST:
: Donno, I think I’m leaning towards the ‘goes off in the corner and quietly boosts itself up on 3 balls’ solution, and let those crazies in the center tear up their equipment… :o)
You may wish to review rules DQ5 and DA1 before deciding to use that as a strategy. If you pop a ball while driving up on it you may well end up being disqualified!
Jerry
Posted by Nate Custer.
Student on team #470, Steve Gregory, from Ypsilanti and Visteon.
Posted on 1/17/2000 11:49 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 1/17/2000 3:41 AM MST:
I am not sure but as I understood it all you could do was lift an opponent to get 10 points. That means you surrender the ramp and bar to your opponents. if they both hang you net -10 if one hangs and the other is on the ramp you net -5. Not so good an idea to me.
Nate Custer
Posted by Adam Anderson.
Student on team #236, Lyme Old Lyme High School, from Lyme Old Lyme High School and Northeast Utilities.
Posted on 1/22/2000 8:58 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 1/17/2000 3:41 AM MST:
: : I haven’t watched the video yet but can anyone tell me how many robots they think could fit on the bar at one time? can only 1? all 4? Can 2 fit on but it will take some very high tech movements? I’m sure when I’ll watch the video I’ll have a better idea but I just wanted your input. thanks and good luck to everyone
Well my team at least… and from what i heard several teams are designing themselfs to ‘reach for the bar’ and pull them selfs over other robots weather that means running them over or knocking them off the bar in the process… and this pratice was allowed in a recient team update…
-Adam Anderson-
team #236
: : Kuli
: Three at most if they are wedged in tight (30’X3=90’ - bar is 96’). OTOH, if they are 36’ wide robots just 2.
: hmmm… assuming robots are either 30’ or 36’ wide…
: 2 30’ + 1 36’ = 96’ unlikely - someone’s going to have to look like a wedge.
: 3 30’ = 90’ if they are ‘kindler gentler’ robots.
: 2 36’ = 72’ a good strategy for a team to clog the center, or let the other guys give you 30 more points.
: 1 36’ right in center and capable of gripping bar so he can’t be slid along bar would clog up center for other 36’ robots, but one side or the other a 30’ could get by, unless something protrudes… :o)
: The Holy Grail of center clogging - the 60’ long robot hanging sideways, with protrusions and a good grip.
: I don’t see a realistic way to get to 4 robots, and I think 3 are unlikely, so I think most matches are going to be 1 or 2 robots hanging.
: This gets me thinking about a robot designed to sieze and control the bar. Interesting, da? Possibly a Juggernaut strategy, hardly capable of winning a match on it’s own but the Perfect Companion for a high scoring qualifier winner, and gets picked for alliances all the time… Build a junkyard dog for the center bar.
: Donno, I think I’m leaning towards the ‘goes off in the corner and quietly boosts itself up on 3 balls’ solution, and let those crazies in the center tear up their equipment… :o)
: Sam
Posted by Samuel Lindhorst.
Engineer on team #240, Mach Vee, from Jefferson High School and Visteon.
Posted on 1/23/2000 7:50 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Adam Anderson on 1/22/2000 8:58 PM MST:
: Well my team at least… and from what i heard several teams are designing themselfs to ‘reach for the bar’ and pull them selfs over other robots weather that means running them over or knocking them off the bar in the process… and this pratice was allowed in a recient team update…
: -Adam Anderson-
: team #236
More trouble than it’s worth for 5 points in my opinion. There’s no telling what the robot looks like you are trying to climb over, what it has protruding and whether it can jam your mechanism. That’s a lot of design time, but if you have 20 engineers on your team, then it might be worth it.
:o)
Sam
Posted by Daniel.
Coach on team #483, BORG, from Berkeley High School and NASA Ames & UC Berkeley.
Posted on 1/23/2000 9:26 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 1/23/2000 7:50 PM MST:
How about a team with 0.5 engineers who’s going to be doing the same thing? Might that be worth it? (hint, hint) 
Posted by Adam Anderson.
Student on team #236, Lyme Old Lyme High School, from Lyme Old Lyme High School and Northeast Utilities.
Posted on 1/24/2000 9:13 AM MST
In Reply to: oh really? posted by Daniel on 1/23/2000 9:26 PM MST:
: How about a team with 0.5 engineers who’s going to be doing the same thing? Might that be worth it? (hint, hint)
We are just making our robot nice and heafty that way if it does get jostled and scraped durring the climb, all damage will be cosmetic…
-Adam Anderson-
Team #236
Posted by Quentin Lewis.
Engineer on team #42, P.A.R.T.S - Prececision Alvirne Robotics Technology Systems, from Alvirne, Hudson NH.
Posted on 1/17/2000 10:50 AM MST
In Reply to: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Mike Kulibaba on 1/16/2000 11:49 PM MST:
> I haven’t watched the video yet but can anyone tell me how
> many robots they think could fit on the bar at one time?
> can only 1? all 4? Can 2 fit on but it will take some very
> high tech movements? I’m sure when I’ll watch the video
> I’ll have a better idea but I just wanted your input. thanks
> and good luck to everyone
Since the ramp is 8 feet wide, and the robots are about 3 feet wide, it would seem that you can easily get two of them side by side.
Then, if you consider robots that might be designed so that they do not have to be directly under the bar in irder to grab it, you would be able to have two robots sitting on each side of the ramp attaching themselves to the bar…
Now, if all 4 of those robots attached on, and pulled themselves up all at the same time, you could see 4 robots hanging…albeit hanging up against each other at that point. (Hanging at an angle from the bat, and bumping against each other at their bases)
I am not a Mechanical Engineer, and I suppose it depends on whether they grab the bar closer to the center, or towards the ands…but I wonder if the bar could actually hold about 500 pounds? (Anyone know?)
I would love to see the above senario attempted!
-Quentin
Posted by Dodd Stacy.
Engineer on team #95, Lebanon Robotics Team, from Lebanon High School and CRREL/CREARE.
Posted on 1/17/2000 2:02 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Quentin Lewis on 1/17/2000 10:50 AM MST:
: I am not a Mechanical Engineer, and I suppose it depends on whether they grab the bar closer to the center, or towards the ands…but I wonder if the bar could actually hold about 500 pounds? (Anyone know?)
Four 130 lb robots hanging from the center of the bar would deflect the bar about 1.6 inches and induce a peak stress in the pipe (at the center) of about 53,000 psi. That might be enough to cause a plastic (permanent) deformation of the bar, depending on the grade and quality of the steel in the particular pipe (it’s not real highly specified material). The stress comes down quickly for less conservative cases, like with four bots hung 2 by 2, fewer than 4 bots, etc. I think FIRST’s position that they’ll replace the bar if it bends is probably a reasonable gamble. The peak stress would come down to about 43,000 psi if they used SCH 80 (heavier wall) pipe, which I suspect they would do if one does get bent.
So I say we all take it as a challenge to BEND THE BAR! It might help if at least one bot in the pile built in the capability to bounce while they’re hanging. Right about 2.5 bounces per second (quicker if we can’t all pile in the middle) gets everything resonating and the bar is toast.
Dodd
Posted by Lora Knepper.
Student on team #69, HYPER (Helping Youth Pursue Engineering & Robotics), from Quincy Public Schools and The Gillette Company.
Posted on 1/17/2000 5:11 PM MST
In Reply to: Ungh posted by Dodd Stacy on 1/17/2000 2:02 PM MST:
Sounds like a good challenge to me! See you in competiton.
Lora
Posted by Jerry Eckert.
Engineer from Looking for a team in Raleigh, NC sponsored by .
Posted on 1/17/2000 6:19 PM MST
In Reply to: Ungh posted by Dodd Stacy on 1/17/2000 2:02 PM MST:
: So I say we all take it as a challenge to BEND THE BAR! It might help if at least one bot in the pile built in the capability to bounce while they’re hanging. Right about 2.5 bounces per second (quicker if we can’t all pile in the middle) gets everything resonating and the bar is toast.
Dodd, are you trying to tell us that designing the robot for this year’s competition is so easy for you that you have time to compute the reasonant frequency of the goal? 
Jerry
Posted by Adam Anderson.
Student on team #236, Lyme Old Lyme High School, from Lyme Old Lyme High School and Northeast Utilities.
Posted on 1/22/2000 8:54 PM MST
In Reply to: Ungh posted by Dodd Stacy on 1/17/2000 2:02 PM MST:
:
: : I am not a Mechanical Engineer, and I suppose it depends on whether they grab the bar closer to the center, or towards the ands…but I wonder if the bar could actually hold about 500 pounds? (Anyone know?)
: Four 130 lb robots hanging from the center of the bar would deflect the bar about 1.6 inches and induce a peak stress in the pipe (at the center) of about 53,000 psi. That might be enough to cause a plastic (permanent) deformation of the bar, depending on the grade and quality of the steel in the particular pipe (it’s not real highly specified material). The stress comes down quickly for less conservative cases, like with four bots hung 2 by 2, fewer than 4 bots, etc. I think FIRST’s position that they’ll replace the bar if it bends is probably a reasonable gamble.
They have to if the bend is greater than one inch… they gaurentee the bar will be to specs with in one inch + -
:The peak stress would come down to about 43,000 psi if they used SCH 80 (heavier wall) pipe, which I suspect they would do if one does get bent.
: So I say we all take it as a challenge to BEND THE BAR! It might help if at least one bot in the pile built in the capability to bounce while they’re hanging. Right about 2.5 bounces per second (quicker if we can’t all pile in the middle) gets everything resonating and the bar is toast.
Ill Bring this up with my coaches, ill see if we can use the pistons to help provide that bounce…
: Dodd
-Adam Anderson-
Team #236
Posted by Harold Lawrence.
Other on team #458, RoboIndians, from Jefferson High School and NASA AMES.
Posted on 1/17/2000 8:51 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Quentin Lewis on 1/17/2000 10:50 AM MST:
: > I haven’t watched the video yet but can anyone tell me how
: > many robots they think could fit on the bar at one time?
: > can only 1? all 4? Can 2 fit on but it will take some very
: > high tech movements? I’m sure when I’ll watch the video
: > I’ll have a better idea but I just wanted your input. thanks
: > and good luck to everyone
: Since the ramp is 8 feet wide, and the robots are about 3 feet wide, it would seem that you can easily get two of them side by side.
: Then, if you consider robots that might be designed so that they do not have to be directly under the bar in irder to grab it, you would be able to have two robots sitting on each side of the ramp attaching themselves to the bar…
: Now, if all 4 of those robots attached on, and pulled themselves up all at the same time, you could see 4 robots hanging…albeit hanging up against each other at that point. (Hanging at an angle from the bat, and bumping against each other at their bases)
: I am not a Mechanical Engineer, and I suppose it depends on whether they grab the bar closer to the center, or towards the ands…but I wonder if the bar could actually hold about 500 pounds? (Anyone know?)
: I would love to see the above senario attempted!
: -Quentin
Don’t forget that teams are now allowed a 6 inch bumper on either side. That
adds up to another 12 inches beyond the footprint! !
Harold
Posted by Matt Ryan.
Student on team #69, HYPER, from Quincy Public Schools and Gillette.
Posted on 1/19/2000 5:36 AM MST
In Reply to: How many robots on the bar in one match? posted by Mike Kulibaba on 1/16/2000 11:49 PM MST:
From what I’ve seen, 2-3 can hang on (depending on their positions), and then the 4th robot, if very thin and small, may (I do say may in italics) get on, if the drivers have any luck finding an opening.