I agree that a robot with a functional triple level 3 may decide not to use it in quals if it hinders their ability to get the rocket RP.
I think a little too much is being assumed.
Are we assuming this team can solo a rocket too? Why cant they specialize in being a triple climber?
If youre built for two, is there a real reason to only stop by lifting one if it doesnt hinder in some way? Why just ignore both if one needs to keep going?
If the goal is to seed as high as possible you need to win matches and get as many of the extra RP as possible.
Even if the team is capable of only scoring low and triple climbing there are still instances where it is advantageous to not triple climb. As long as you are certain that you will win the match on points without the triple climb there is no reason to risk anything extra beyond securing the RP. I know that in my experience even the best designed robots have potentials for unexpected failure. And if that unexpected failure is the triple climb robot dropping one of their partners who then lands such that they are “supporting” the climbed robot from L1 thereby rendering the climb invalid and losing the RP, is that really worth it for 9 points that in this example we are assuming are not required to win the match?
Again to be clear, in this example the additional points from the triple climb are clearly not needed to win the match. If there is any doubt about the match win being secure prior to the climb, and the margin of loss being small enough that the triple climb will make the difference, then of course you should go for the triple climb. BUT in cases where the match win is already clearly secured, or you are losing by SO much that the triple climb won’t win you the match, it could be better to just ensure the climb RP.
That’s basically how we’re approaching it. Our climbing mechanism is confined within our frame perimeter, so we could share the space with another robot that also doesn’t need the entire width of the lvl3 platform to climb. If that’s the case, we could in theory take part in a “double solo” climb, though in practice it would still be a very tight squeeze to get both robots onto the platform. Our robot is a relatively slim 27" across the frame, but that means we couldn’t take up less than 28 1/2" of platform top and still have all our wheels on it (and thus be supported by it.) That only leaves 19 1/2" for another robot, which is probably not enough.
If you cant meet the goal you outlined above,
If something is risky, and I want it to work when I really need it, I’m going to want to get as many real-world “reps” on it as possible. Maybe I will see something that can be improved.
A triple lift isn’t like a 2015 can grabber - you can’t just slap it on for Championship elims and expect everything is going to go smoothly…
As a side note: Our mechanism was also made so that it can climb either the lvl2 or lvl3 platforms, so that we could be as flexible as possible in an alliance. If we’re with a partner who can only climb lvl3 (as a lot of the mechanisms I’ve seen so far are made to do, like arms that flip the robot over on top and ramps for other robots to drive up) then we can climb to lvl2 instead and still rack up the extra three points over staying on lvl1.
I dont think anyone expects it to either (and if they are, rip them) but i dont see the need to not use it if there isint anything actually hindering the use (something wrong, partner says no, extra RP potential) especially if you are at risk to be in an undesirable seeding position.
I don’t think he’s going to rip himself.
What I’m wondering is less how many teams will carry two partners up with them, but how many are gonna carry themselves + two other robots up compared to how many are going to lift themselves up and then lift two partners once they’re already on top.
What about robots that assist two others up and then elevate themselves? Think 179 in 2012 on steroids.
Practice with robots at your competition
To play devil’s advocate, this was never used in a match.
At level were a triple level 3 climb matters, you’re not winning the match if one of your partners is disabled.
RP means everything when it comes to elims–whether you’re an alliance captain, where you are in the draft order. The metastrategy is key.
If youre already in elims, it doesnt matter. If you cant prove that your climber works, you already set your future in stone.
I think this will be almost non-existant. It’s gonna be really hard to get both robots up, and with the incentive to have only 1 lvl3 climb to get the RP, I think you will only really see this at the highest levels.
You have to play to maximize RPs to get into a good position in the playoffs, which may mean that you don’t use your full climbing capability very often. The teams that can triple climb this year are very likely to also be near the top of the ranking order.
You appear to be saying that the climber should be deployed in all qual matches to demonstrate it for other teams. That’s before the playoffs. I’m pointing out that the metastrategy of achieving the highest ranking could mitigate against using the climber frequently, before the playoffs.
The wrong point has been focused on then.
Even coming from 1678, if you came up to me with a triple lift, never tested at the event, I have little reason to trust the design if im in a picking position (or im in a position to decline) to be able to do it. If your reasoning for never showing it is because its “not worth the points,” then why build it in the first place? It doesnt need to be in all matches, but if you never use it, then its not something that was shown to work and its not something im going to trust.
Not all metastrats play out like you want it to. Like i said earlier: