Hypothetical defensive situation

Robot A is a offensive high goal shooting robot. Robot B is a defensive robot. Robot A uses a system similar to 118’s robot’s shooting mechanism from 2013 where robot ‘A’ lifts it’s front half to change it’s shooting angle

During a match robot A shoots for high goals just out side their key with a very steep angle of attack when suddenly robot B rams/pushes them causing robot A to shoot out of the field and/or tip over.

Would robot B’s action be fair play since it was defensive play outside the loading zone and since robot A set it’s self up in a unstable way or would this break rule’s related to intentionally causing your opponent to flip/make a foul?

Way too dependent on too many factors to make any sort of call.

But, in a generalized sort of way: If B hits A and A shoots out of the field, A won’t get a penalty as it’s not intentional on A’s part (given that A stops shooting pretty quickly). If B hits A and A tips over, then you’re asking the refs to make a judgement call–and there’s no telling which way it’ll go for sure, being rather situationally-dependent on a variety of factors related to A and B and how they play the game/the game is played on them.

Here’s the rule in question here:

G08. Don’t tear others down to lift yourself up. Strategies aimed at the destruction or inhibition of ROBOTS via attachment, damage, tipping, entanglements, or deliberately putting a GEAR on an opponent’s ROBOT are not allowed.

The rule mentions nothing about whether the robot who tipped was in an unstable position. It does however mention that you are strategizing to destroy in inhibit the other robot. By tipping them under any circumstances, you are inhibiting them from competing in the match (unless you’re 330) and therefore would result in at minimum a foul and a yellow card. I don’t believe that the loading zone comes into this at all.

I would say judgment call but given the size and height restrictions this is unlikely

I mentioned the loading zone because that is the only area where you can not hit or touch another robot besides rope climbing or a disabled/flipped robot.

And it’s at the far end of the field from where A is shooting. So it doesn’t factor in at all. (BTW, for the sake of correctness: It’s the Retrieval Zone. If you’re talking about the Loading Lane, which is behind your opponent’s Alliance Station, any robot caught in that area has OTHER penalties to worry about!)

There is another area where you are not allowed to make contact with another robot: inside their Frame Perimeter. Oh, and if you’re in their Launchpad in auto, you can’t make contact with them either. But I think we can assume this isn’t in auto.

G08 is a rule about strategy, which to some extent requires referees to read the drive teams’ minds. They’ve actually gotten fairly good at doing so in some respects. For example, if your strategy seems to be just trying to push a robot to prevent it from lining up its shots correctly, that should generally be fine (assuming no other rules are violated, of course). If upon pushing a robot it seems to start trying to tip, referees are likely to care about your next move: If you push your joysticks fully forward and start cackling maniacally, then you’re likely to get called on a G08 violation. If you clearly back off since your strategy isn’t and wasn’t to try to tip anybody, then you probably won’t be called on one, even if the other robot happens to fall over because it was suboptimally engineered.

In other words, because the rule requires the referees to gauge your intent and strategy, it’s in your best interest to make your strategy and intent as clear as possible through your actions. (Assuming, of course, your strategy and intent are within the spirit of FIRST and GP and you’re not trying to damage or tip anybody.)

And also keep in mind that G09 penalizes damaging contact within a frame perimeter, regardless of intent. But we seem to mostly be talking of “shoving matches” here.

A less than four degree angle of inclination would render Robot A illegal due to <R23>

[quote=<R23 Blue Box>]Example 2: A ROBOT deploys a MECHANISM which LIFTS the
BUMPERS outside the BUMPER ZONE (when virtually transposed onto
a flat floor). This violates R23.[/quote]

The Key offers " zero impact protection" during a HE shot or LE shot/dump…I would expect any defense bot to be impacting “early and often” down near the key and simply look for the visual hand count by a ref and make sure to exit the key within 5 sec to avoid foul. We saw what will happen should be played last year with shots on the castle up close…“the ramming hard zone” the only difference this year is if defender in in the key then they have < 5 seconds to do their defense inside the key and exit or give other alliance 5 points ( 15 HE goals or 45 LE goals)

The key is not a protected area… defense played there will be brutal if done . IMO

That being said I highly doubt a key defender type bot will be employed much, to many other points to defend elsewhere

the rturn of nets to 2’ bots within the tall x,y perimeter via cheescake may be a thing to get a foot net over a low bot