Hypothetically, if Manchester financially collapses, what succeeds FIRST?

The only FRC v2 we need is Mr.N’s competition.


Blacktop Aerial Assist here we come.


I’m probably missing the intent of this phrase, but is FIRST Global a separate entity?

Yeah, FIRST Global is its own organization. They have ties like being started by Dean Kamen and having FTC teams as the country representatives, but it’s separate.

Established by the founder of FIRST® (For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology), FIRST Global is a separate US-based 501(c)(3) not-for-profit public charity that provides the framework for an olympics-style robotics challenge — the FIRST Global Challenge.
About FIRST Global | FIRST Global

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Oh man my wife would be so stoked, but my daughter would be so bummed (and then maybe my wife wouldn’t be stoked)?


OK… I’ll admit that tic-tac-toe with robots is kinda dumb.

However, I still think that Vex game design is better than First game design in 2 pretty major ways:

  • The games are simple, and easy for non-competitors to understand.
  • They aren’t constantly shoving a theme and/or storyline down your throats.

I’ll always have a soft spot for Vex games since they’re what I grew up with, even if I do think FRC, in particular, is a better option than say, Vex AI or Vex EDR .

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You take that back right now!

2005 is one of the best FRC games of all time (and also my favorite 217 robot of all time)… and I’d love to replay it in the modern era.




Jr FLL -> new VEX competition using the VEX 123 system?
FRC -> VRC, VEX AI, new VEX competition using the VEXpro system (FRC scale)?

Paul Copioli said on a FUN stream a while back that VEX never created an FRC competitor because they felt FRC had solved that problem. If FIRST folds, I could imagine VEX and CTRE creating an FRC scale competition with heavier focus on mechanical design and larger scale than VRC / VEX AI.

Sphero, BEST, or any new ones from REV / AM / etc. would compete for these markets, but I think VEX clearly has an advantage for the competition over robotics competitions.

That said, FIRST is not going to financially collapse in 2021.

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program would die overnight lmao

It’d be interesting if RobotZone, having invested a good chunk of change into the FTC market, would then come forward with a VRC competitor

My reading of FIRST’s public financials (and I am not an expert here, but I have been a board member and the treasurer of a [much smaller] non-profit) is that with prudence they can survive a terrible 2021 and as long as teams and sponsors come back in 2022 they should be OK.

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Can I exchange an apology for the 973 2019 CAD by chance?

All jokes aside, I love the idea, and the designs seem neat, but I dislike the volatility of the game.

At first glance, it seems like leads can be garnered and lost in the span of as few as 30 seconds.

It doesn’t help that I hate tic-tac-toe without the robots, and even they can’t really save it.

On an unrelated note, were the 973 2017 -2019 CADs ever publically released?
I can’t seem to find them on Chief or the 973 site, even though the '09-'16 bots are up there.

It’s a much better audience experience imho, and you can build a robot that plays to into the volatile game dynamics. It’s not pure chance, like certain automated scoring systems, and in strong contrast to the 2018 scale battle that was over before teleop.
2005 is also probably a lot more fun for the coach than the driver lol.
2007 had a similar scoring mechanism for completing rows and columns, but hard D made it unwatchable at times.

I have to concede this point. It sounds great as an audience experience.

This sounds like an interesting story I have yet to hear. Mind sharing it?

You seem to really dislike VRC, but you haven’t explained your positions. Could you elaborate? I’ve always seen merits in both programs. VRC is cheap and extremely approachable, whereas FTC is more expensive but lets you play with beefier hardware and progresses into FRC nicely.

I also had the chance to volunteer at VEX Worlds last year and was extremely impressed with how the event was run compared to my experiences as a participant at Houston and previously St Louis.


Low levels of VRC can be… painful. You can’t market something as a $600 kit and expect people not to buy the $600 kit.

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2010: penalty of death, relatively uncommon but devastating and a guaranteed loss
2017: literally just not counting all the fuel
2020: again not counting everything, in addition to jams

Jams were very common in 2012, less so in 2006, and pretty much every automated scoring goal has had an issue with bounceback. 2013 was especially bad as frizbees would regularly slide out at higher levels of play, and 2016’s chains liked to fling the boulder back out just enough to be annoying.

Overall, not great not terrible. I much prefer scoring “when the dust has settled” and when the goals aren’t designed with terrible assumptions about team prioritization.

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Huh. That makes sense.

Thanks for clarifying!


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