Ideal 3rd Robot at Champs

My assumption is that the top 2 robots on a championship alliance will be the top 2 available Scale Robots. I don’t believe there will be enough disparity between the best overall Scale Robots and the rest of the field for the top picks to be a Switch/Vault specialist. That assumption could definitely be wrong, and if it is I’d like to hear why.

With that said, what would be the ideal 3rd robot at Champs? What kind of capabilities will they have? What kind of auto modes?

My thought is that the top robots at Champs will have multi-Scale auto modes which would make a single Scale auto mode less desirable in a 3rd robot unless the auto mode is out of the way. So would that make multi-Switch autos more desirable? How about multi-Vault autos?

Would a fast and reliable multi-climb mechanism add significant value in a 2nd pick? Will the ideal 3rd robot be able to contribute a lot of cubes on the Scale?

TL;DR My team is currently in a position where we believe we’re an average Switch/Vault robot with a lot of weight to work with, and a lot of time for improvement. What should we be doing to best prepare for Champs?

What i believe from what I’ve seen so far is that the top alliances will all have robots that can do the scale, switch, and vault. If you want to talk about just the 3rd robot on an alliance, I can see them going for at least 1 cube in the switch in auto, probably 2 or 3. The perfect strategy for that robot (imo) would be to first fill the vault while keeping ownership of their switch, then quickly help with the scale, but making defense more of a priority.

3rd robots with switch/Multi-vault autos would be a steal for any alliance. Starting the game with the ability to quickly play force or boost, can help make up an early difference or push you out to an even bigger lead.

I don’t think there will be many 3rds with that ability though. Many third robots at champs last year had inconsistent center gear autos, so asking the field at champs to get that much better from year to year is probably a bit much.

In my opinion ideal thirds, can protect the home switch, fill the vault, and defend the opponents portals and possibly be lifted by one of their partners.

I think top seeded alliances will be looking for 1-cube switch autos and the ability to destroy the opponent’s switch. Basically I think the ideal third robot for high seeds at the championship is the Everybot.

Given that there were robots that went unpicked at our week 1 with consistent switch autos, I can’t imagine there won’t be switch auto capable robots available at the championship, although I doubt there will be multi-cube autos available.

A good option could also be a robot that can help get all 3 robots climbing at the end if the 2 do not qualify originally

I honestly think that the only thing that you need to look for past maybe the first 3-4 picks of a division is number of cubes scored, wherever the location. I don’t think that there’s any real need for the third bot to climb, as the first pick will probably have the ability to put two teams in the air. I think that a multi-switch auto (presumably using the power cube zone) can even become actively harmful to an alliance, as it means that the cubes to fill the vault are more difficult to attain, meaning that there are fewer accessible points for the alliance.

That assumes ~48 teams per championship that can put two teams in the air effectively and none of them team up.

With that said, how far does a fast and reliable multi-climber fall in the draft?

I think scale bot’s will at the top at the end of Quals. If a #1 alliance can hold or make the scale as “push” by themselves, I think having a switch bot that can dominate opposing scale would be first pick, see some the 7179 matches. This would leave the opposing alliance no place to score. I think this works well against an alliance with 2 scale bots, since they likely won’t have the speed to defend their switch or attack your switch.

The key to this strat is the alliance captain has to be able to hold their weight at scale.

Brian

I mean I hate to say it, but if all the climbing attachment does is make you look better to the 3-8 alliance captains do you really want the climber?

Take a look at Greater DC Finals 1 (https://livestream.com/LeeHartman/GDC2018/videos/171399867, at 8:11:40). Look at how blue plays. This is the game plan, as far as I can tell:

  1. Build a lead on the scale in auto
  2. Have robot 1 focus on the scale
  3. Have robot 2 focus on the opponents’ switch and feed robot 1 cubes from the exchange
  4. Have robot 3 focus on the near switch and the vault

TLDW: Blue gets a 3-1 cube lead on the scale in auto, and has one robot vs two from red on the scale for the rest of the match. They keep the scale for 1/2 to 2/3 of the match, posses both switches for most of the match, and completely fill their vault for a win.

With some more strategic power-up playing, they could have won by even more. They opted to fill up levitate first, but (assuming I’m confident that my alliance can get 9 cubes) I would do boost 3 first while we still possess the scale, then force 2 once we lose the scale, then levitate.

Everybot that can score the switch in auto

The same exact strategy was played at San Diego with us, 1538, and 597. To be completely honest, I can see that being a really effective champs elimination alliance. The climbing / lift aspect can be interchanged to include 148 / 118 / 254 and another solid scale bot (which 597 was capable of being).

Here’s a video of Finals 2 that showcases it being played out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9P-Kr8pvoG4

The three Cube or more scale +one switch auto will be key to Einstein

It will be necessary to have two really good Scale bots at least able to hold the Scale for 97 seconds (~72%) and not lose ownership of home switch

The third bot…

I would probably try to find a strong defender with fast portal intake and switch delivery to go with the two best scale bots. With a vision obstructing side and bars that extend horizontally for other climbers.

That way they could efficeintly dominate the opponent switch (net 135) AND slow the exchange point value along with snatching at risk pyramid cubes as they fall out in the fray. In essence the third bot increasing the ratio of alliance owned cubes for scoring they can also feed the cubes to the scale bots and decrease thier cycle times who maintain the Scale and home switch.

The second Scale bot puts at least three in exchange to earn 45 (levitate)

Play havoc right on thier side.

Then endgame multi climbs.

I’m a huge fan of 1836’s robot. Their consistent and fast intake, 3 cube switch auto, and amazing driving would make them an ideal partner for 2 strong scale robots.

For the next few weeks, definitely work on the autonomous mode. Having a multi-switch auto to start teleop with a big buffer will let you fill the vault comfortably even with another robot scoring on your scale. A multi-vault auto is also great, as stated above, because it allows you to start teleop with a force/boost.

If you have the time and resources, adding a solo climber can help. Even if it’s not used every match, the option to have your robot climb and letting your partners continue scoring can prove valuable in close matches.

"the nearest run thing you ever saw in your life’
Wellington, after Waterloo

One less beer and 2102 might have made a difference :slight_smile:

Pick #16?

That would be 597 at San Diego, a twin-ramp+levitate robot. I want to say that there were a couple other multiclimbers that went earlier in the selection.

I think about this constantly. If we hadn’t fallen, our alliance had the potential to defeat that alliance for the match, and potentially the next one. Or if our autonomous had followed through. (our intake/arm is piston actuated with a pin to lock it into normal angled forward play, but the servo for that pin failed, resulting in the arm shooting straight up, missing the scale) :o

There was a lot of talk of multi-vault auto modes earlier in this thread, so it seems worth pointing out Q90.

Q90: Q76 asked when is a robot clear of G22B as it pushes a POWER CUBE into the exchange. A ROBOT pushing a POWER CUBE resting on the FIELD into the EXCHANGE & holding another POWER CUBE is a violation of G22. The question is, if the POWER CUBE is already in the EXCHANGE (completely contained on the rollers and outside the FIELD) and a ROBOT puts another POWER CUBE into the EXCHANGE, such that the 1st POWER CUBE is pushed further away from the FIELD by the 2nd, is there a G22 violation?

A: Yes, this is a violation of G22. As stated in 76, G22 applies “regardless of location,” there is no “exemption” just because a POWER CUBE is inside an EXCHANGE.

Multi-vault autos are likely to be called for herding as the drive team can’t pick up the previous cube to get it out of the way. Sure, this is an annoying interpretation of the rule that takes away what could be a cool element of strategic gameplay, but the Q&A is clear.

To bury your home switch with 3 cubes in auto gives you the freedom to either (1) immediately play the vault at the start of tele, or (2) go attack the away switch from the portal giving your other two robots time to work the scale until they need to start defending their switch.