mm.
So anyone care? I presonally am a pretty hard-core CSS/semantic markup guy, and news like this makes me sad.
I want a browser that adheres to standards. I want my PNG. I want a browser that won’t do strange things for no apparent reason, blow up, or otherwise be hideously buggy.
Anyone here care?
I don’t understand. 
Is Microsoft no longer updating or coming out with new versions of IE? Because that sounds a little odd to me. What will they use for a browser then?
The operating system will be the browser, I think. (if i skimmed those articles correctly)
Here’s the slashdot article for anyone interested.
Program manager Brian Countryman stated that “as part of the OS, IE will continue to evolve, but there will be no future standalone installations. IE6 SP1 is the final standalone installation.”
Wasn’t this the main complaint in the anti-trust suit – that the OS and the broswer are tied together too closely? This seems to move it in that direction for sure!
I care. As a person that works on Mozilla development, bugs, and testing, there are a lot of concerns I have regarding this. This is discussed a little more here.
Yeah, webdesigners are in for a rough ride. I’m sure IE’s standards-support will be up to par by then, but that’s quite a while to wait. The reason this is happening is definitely a legal issue. Look at his words carefully; he says that it will be in the same install. Architechture may change a bit (it’ll be more ActiveX-based), but it will still be seperate from the OS as it is now. Still, this is enough justification legally to bundle their product with their OS. It also has the secondary function of forcing you to buy Longhorn if you wish to use their browser (I can’t see right now why you would), which you’ll have been waiting for longer than we waited for Netscape 6.
A big question right now in the Mozilla comunity is what AOLTW is going to do. After being hit with a $750 million-dollar bribe plus free use of IE and WMP9 from Microsoft, they have the choice of continuing Mozilla development, or axing the Netscape division, and a lot of good people along with it. If they’re smart, they’ll do the former. Unfortunately, they aren’t.
Wait, no more mozilla? uhoh…
Wouldn’t be surprised if Microsoft does even more stuff like FP extensions to screw with webpage stuff. >_<
It seems a few of you are confused about this. Microsoft will continue updating IE for new, and better, non W3 compliant websites. What’s happening, is they’re no longer releasing any STANDALONE IE updates. They’re just making the browser fully integrated into Windows, much the way it is now, but moreso. Yes there have been legal problems with this before, but it’s Microsoft, they can do pretty much whatever they want. That said, I’m sure this will allow for better integration of something into somewhere. Probablly security vulnerabilites into the Windows OS. But you’ll still be able to use Mozilla or Opera or Netscape whatever other browser you use in Windows. And if you use IE, well, the change wont even be noticble to you, besides updating IE through Windows updates instead of updating just the browser. I could go all day about this, but yeah, I don’t really care. In time, none of this will matter.
I said no more mozilla because of the post before mine, saying possibly no more mozilla development.
“Would you like to install this other browser?” click yes
“Are you sure?” click yes
“It’ll crash your computer, you sure?” click yes
“It is inferior to IE” click yes
“You sure you don’t want to use IE?” click yes
“Installation aborted by Longhorn” *start kicking computer.
hehehe
There’s only a minor chance of such a thing happening, and personally I think it’s quite unlikely, but anything dumb is possible with the people high-up in AOLTW; there were a few scary moments right after the deal, but chances are nothing will come of it. It’s just that some people who don’t know any better will say, ‘hey, if we have seven years of free rights to IE, what’s Netscape for anyway?’
*Originally posted by jon *
**It seems a few of you are confused about this. Microsoft will continue updating IE for new, and better, non W3 compliant websites. What’s happening, is they’re no longer releasing any STANDALONE IE updates. They’re just making the browser fully integrated into Windows, much the way it is now, but moreso. Yes there have been legal problems with this before, but it’s Microsoft, they can do pretty much whatever they want. That said, I’m sure this will allow for better integration of something into somewhere. Probablly security vulnerabilites into the Windows OS. But you’ll still be able to use Mozilla or Opera or Netscape whatever other browser you use in Windows. And if you use IE, well, the change wont even be noticble to you, besides updating IE through Windows updates instead of updating just the browser. I could go all day about this, but yeah, I don’t really care. In time, none of this will matter. **
IE will not be updated standalone, meaning you have to wait until Longhorn, which incorperates some underhanded things a lot of people will be hesitant to install. This is 90% legal, to get away from those pesky anti-trust and monopoly proceedings which almost r0x0red Microsoft, and 10% technological.
Scenario: You are an IE-loving web-developer (yeah, they exist 
). You’ve been waiting for standards support and a browser that can catch up to Opera and Mozilla for almost four years. Sadly, the only way that’s happening is by buying a packaged OS made in Redmond, USA just for you by your friend Bill.
Longhorn is projected for between Q4 2004 and Q1 2005. IE’s next version will be integrated so as to avoid legal problems, but will likely be completely seperate from the OS as it is now (and it is; any OS-integration Microsoft currently claims is just UI illusion). This also allows them to get away with saying in court that a) they are no longer competing in web browser industry, and b) they don’t have to go through all that default browser garbage, so every time you click on a link in Longhorn or HTML file, it’ll open it up in the same window.
Edit: There are rumours that I keep hearing about the new IE layout engine being based on Tasman, the power behind IE/Mac. This is a very good engine; it’s fast, small, and standard-compliant. There’s more here .
*Originally posted by tatsak42 *
**I said no more mozilla because of the post before mine, saying possibly no more mozilla development.“Would you like to install this other browser?” click yes
“Are you sure?” click yes
“It’ll crash your computer, you sure?” click yes
“It is inferior to IE” click yes
“You sure you don’t want to use IE?” click yes
“Installation aborted by Longhorn” *start kicking computer.hehehe **
O wait, isn’t tha the same thing IE does? maybe its more the inferior os than the browser. In my opinion, IE basically always has been part of the OS and they are just now making it “common knowledge” Whens the last time you could use windows without IE? I know my school’s lab had to replace it after it was deleted because the system was useless. And as far as this no longer updating… what about Mac? I bet this is why Apple started Safari, they must have had insider information, or wait, maybe its cause IE sucks that much. Mozilla for Windows may suck but there are a few good version on Mac like camino which is my second favorite browser, only to Safari.
I am proud to say mozilla/firebird/various incarnations are quite good. (Although firebird did decide to crash viewing this thread… talk about irony)
Whats happening has been explained. I guess alot of people are now waiting breathlessly and hoping something happens, or someone somewhere will do something.
I just don’t want to live with strange bugs… and lack of PNGs. (Wants alpha-transparency… somehow)
iBob, all (except possibly XP, but not for long) versions of Windows to date can be used without IE. Microsoft removed the uninstall entries for IE, and the shell is slightly integrated, so Windows won’t work. There are programs like 98Lite and IEradicate for removing IE. There’s no real reason to, but it’s a proof of concept.
*Originally posted by HFWang *
**I want a browser that adheres to standards. I want my PNG. I want a browser that won’t do strange things for no apparent reason, blow up, or otherwise be hideously buggy.
**
If you want a browser that can do that, then why would you ever use IE?
I mean, I know what you mean…yeah, IE is pretty stable, compliant, all that…but I can’t stand a browser that has so much bloat that it makes me feel like I’m using a slowdem again…
–Petey
Wow! So exciting- M$ IE! For those of you out there that actually use M$ as your default OS
Do you people actually use IE?
I am saddened if there is more than One among all of u.
umm I use IE6 / Opera7. IE6 when I’m just looking at like CD and caching up on maybe news. Only when im doing stuff very important I use Opera. Its tabs, coolness, and so many short cut keys make it king. The best feature it has is the paste and go (an of coures its option ot pick up where u left of browesing). that thing save like 1sec everytime you go sum where( which over time really add up). When I reformat my comp whenever the new ram im gonna order comes in b/c of XP being a pice of ___ and gayanateing my comp wit several BSOD’s a week. It almost as bad as when I had my P-II 400 w/98 FE. Now I have AMD XP 2000+ as my cpu. Hopefully reformatting will fix the problems. Then I’ll spend another week of installing software and customizeing XP again b/c all of the default stuff sucks. and by the way what ever happened to the great browser wars. Opera may start a new one and make IE get updated (at least thats what I hope). I would install redhat linux, but I have sum great comp games that I really love by microsoft… One thing i hate really really hate is when u go to site and its like this must be viewd by MS IE like the MSN gaming Zone. Come on we all know that Opera and NS are both capable of viewing that.
MSN Gaming Zone has some screwed-up scripting that makes some parts work wrong (you can sort of get in by spoofing your UA string). For the software, it’s made to work with IE, and a lot of the commands just don’t work with other browsers. Sure, MSN is shutting out other browsers (in fact I, and others, contacted them about their Mozilla support), but it’s partially due to the fact that the Zone Software was made to be called up by IE. I used to play Rogue Spear there (and was freakin’ good at it), but I had to use IE to get in. My IE desktop shortcut read ‘MSN Gaming Zone’ for the longest time 
.
Guys - I use IE. So what? Microsoft is the largest software company. They are going to have little errors and can’t (better word - won’t) support everything. He has to make it to where it’s compatible w/ 99% of the stuff out there. So what if people use IE? Does that make them lesser of a human? Bill Gates is just making money off of what he created. A monopoly? Not in my eyes. He created this windows atmosphere (or giant for a nother better word) - so he should be able to run it any way he wants to.
I salute Bill. I wish to create something like he has done, and take a small peace of the American dream. I want to have money coming out of places that I never knew I had.
That is my 02¢
Doesn’t this only help Mozilla/Opera/all the other browsers?
As of now, Mozilla and Opera already compare favorably to IE 6. A year and a half after XP came out, only 20-30% of windows users are using it. Thus, people don’t upgrade very quickly to a new MS OS. We can assumet that it will be a similar percentage for Longhorn. Thus a year and a half after Longhorn comes out (which is already going to be a long time from now) 80% of windows users will have an obsolete browser. Mozilla and Opera will have had 3 years then to totally obliterate IE6 in features.
I am not surprised at this one bit
They are not only integrating IE but WMP 9, and most of their other applications into the OS.
This is all to set up their next thing called TCPA/Palladium. Now they claim it is trustworthy computing, but I believe it will be the complete opposite.
Palladium is basically software that connects with Fritz chip inside the processor of a windows computer that restricts software and files to whatever the content providers want.
For example, music companies can access your computer and delete a pirated MP3. There are also a bunch of other disturbing things that Palladium can do.
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html (If you want more info)
Anyways Palladium will eventually will hurt competition
Aaggghhhhh… just read the above linked faq on Palladium. Glad I’m not tied to Windoze and Intel…
Anyways, the death of IE as a stand-alone product is not only entirely bringing to fruition all of the claims of the Microsoft Anti-trust suit (bundling/bungling)…it’s also really stupid on their part.
All I can see this leading to is people defecting to better alternative browsers and/or better operating systems … TCPA/Palladium is scary and IE sucks anyhow.
Safari for OS X isn’t even out of beta yet and it’s by far a better browser than any version of IE that I’ve ever seen.
Aaron Knight
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