I'm an MIT Admissions Officer. Ask me Questions!

[Petey]

This is me: http://www.mitadmissions.org/chrispeterson.shtml

I don’t know if anyone still uses this forum, and lord knows I haven’t posted on CD in years, but if anyone has any questions, I will try to get to them when I’m not reading cases

[kstl99]

@Petey

This is me: Chris Peterson SM ’13 | MIT Admissions

I don’t know if anyone still uses this forum, and lord knows I haven’t posted on CD in years, but if anyone has any questions, I will try to get to them when I’m not reading cases

My daughter, who is a sophomore and would love to go to MIT wash pushed into taking a third year of French instead of a higher math, although they did work out a compromise. Is a third year of a foreign language really that important to MIT? More generally, what is the best way to know?

And by the way, a few people do use this forum. Some of us too much.

[ProgramLuke]

@kstl99

And by the way, a few people do use this forum. Some of us too much.

That’s possible? :eek:

[kstl99]

@ProgramLuke

That’s possible? :eek:

When I’m on here after midnight and I need to get up at 5…

[Zholl]

here’s a question: I have a 3.2 GPA and an ACT score of 35 without the writing, though I expect to score similarly on the SAT next month, but I’m 124 out of 300 and some students (I had to give my only transcript copy to my engineering teacher), so I’m obviously not that highly ranked in my school. what would you say my chances of acceptance are?

some other information: I’m currently in my second year of calculus, and am taking AP physics and a third year of engineering, as well as a few other AP courses and such, putting me at 8 semesters of math, English, and sciences, 5 semesters of history/social studies, 4 semesters foreign language, 1 semester of microeconomics, and 12 semesters of music classes.

[Greg_Marra]

I am worried this thread is going to descend into people worrying a lot about their grades and test scores. There are a lot of things that make you an interesting person to colleges. Among the top is passion.

Be yourself and do what you love.

[CIM]

My personal, non MIT opinion on what will be the inevitable GPA questions: Do you really want to go to a college that throw you out because of minute differences and numbers and grades that are based on arbitrary scales with no standard that are decided entirely by your teacher’s and institution? Be a genuinely interesting person and I bet they won’t care that your 3.75 isn’t a 4.0.

Here’s my question about MIT: One of the big things that was told to me about MIT was their suicide rate. Is this a really big deal? What resources are there on campus for students who find themselves in these situations?

[Zholl]

@Greg Marra

I am worried this thread is going to descend into people worrying a lot about their grades and test scores. There are a lot of things that make you an interesting person to colleges. Among the top is passion.

Be yourself and do what you love.

this hadn’t even occurred to me. I’m still in that spot where I’m trying to figure out where I’d like to go and whether I’d be eligible at a school before spending 50 dollars to send in an application, and it’d be good to know whether my academic qualifications would be unacceptable. the way the counselors talk doesn’t help this much, either

I’ll definitely have to keep this more towards the front of my mind moving forward

[Petey]

@kstl99

My daughter, who is a sophomore and would love to go to MIT was pushed into taking a third year of French instead of a higher math, although they did work out a compromise. Is a third year of a foreign language really that important to MIT? More generally, what is the best way to know?

kstl -

A third year of foreign language is good, but not required, for MIT. We do require bio, chem, physics, and calculus in high school. What math did she not take, and what math is she taking?

If she’s on track to complete calculus she’s fulfilling the basic requirements. If she can take AP/IB/honors calculus, all the better.

@Zholl

here’s a question: I have a 3.2 GPA and an ACT score of 35 without the writing, though I expect to score similarly on the SAT next month, but I’m 124 out of 300 and some students (I had to give my only transcript copy to my engineering teacher), so I’m obviously not that highly ranked in my school. what would you say my chances of acceptance are?

some other information: I’m currently in my second year of calculus, and am taking AP physics and a third year of engineering, as well as a few other AP courses and such, putting me at 8 semesters of math, English, and sciences, 5 semesters of history/social studies, 4 semesters foreign language, 1 semester of microeconomics, and 12 semesters of music classes.

Zholl -

It’s impossible for me to give you a chance on your acceptance. See: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/massachusetts-institute-technology/939227-reminder-no-one-not-even-me-can-give-you-accurate-chance-mit.html

Your scores are great, but the grades attending your class rank would likely give us pause. We would want to look at your grades, look at your classes, and look at your teacher recs, and try to see why you’re ranked in the middle of the pack though your testing ability is obviously quite high.

If you can tell me a little bit more about your grading situation (either in this thread or via PM) I might be able to help more.

Other than that, your course selection is certainly good.

@Greg Marra

I am worried this thread is going to descend into people worrying a lot about their grades and test scores. There are a lot of things that make you an interesting person to colleges. Among the top is passion.

Be yourself and do what you love.

Greg -

Agreed 100%. Grades and scores are important in our process, but only in a very narrow way. Briefly, we have decades of data about students, comparing how they did in high school on grades and tests to how they performed once admitted to MIT. And because we have these data, we (being MIT) built complex models that demonstrate what sort of academic profiles are good matches for MIT and what sort of profiles are not.

The first thing we do in our admissions process is take a pass through to distinguish the academically qualified from the unqualified as per above. Maybe 50% of the applicants every year are perfectly academically qualified for MIT.

The hard part is going from the ~8,000 kids who are qualified to the ~1,500 we accept. And that’s where grades and scores become utterly unimportant and your passion matters.

I couldn’t agree with you more, and I certainly hope this thread does not become a grade/score worryfest. It’s something that we really try to depressurize in our process.

For more, I recommend this blog entry by our Associate Director of Recruitment, who is MIT '00:

http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/standardized_test_requirements/whats_the_big_deal_about_402.shtml

Excerpt:

@"Matt McGann

People make a big deal about test scores. No one seems to believe me when I tell them that when I’m reading an application, I just glance at the test scores to get a sense of them before moving on to the more important parts of the application – that is, who you are. But here’s an example. So, I’m reading this application of a student, a pretty strong student, who’s definitely overcome some challenges recently. I come to the second to last piece in the folder, which is the guidance counselor letter (the last piece is the interview report). The GC makes a big deal of the student’s “scoring the magic 1600 on the SAT.” Now, when I started the case, I mentally noted to myself, “Okay, this student has scores that are fine, let’s move on,” but it didn’t really make an impact on me that the student had “the magic 1600.” Yes, scoring a 1600 is something that you, your school, your parents, and your guidance counselor can be very proud of. But it’s not something I’m going to bust out my highlighter for, circle in big red pen, make it the focus of your case. In fact, I don’t think I have ever in my summary of a student used high standardized scores as an argument to admit that student.

…

We want people who are academically curious and passionate, people who will bring their various talents to MIT and share them with others, people who will be good roommates, good mentors, good friends. We do not admit test scores. We admit people.

@Chris is me

My personal, non MIT opinion on what will be the inevitable GPA questions: Do you really want to go to a college that throw you out because of minute differences and numbers and grades that are based on arbitrary scales with no standard that are decided entirely by your teacher’s and institution? Be a genuinely interesting person and I bet they won’t care that your 3.75 isn’t a 4.0.

Hi Chris -

We don’t throw students out because of minute differences. In fact, we’re one of the few highly selective colleges that don’t convert all of our incoming applicant’s GPA to the 10.0 Exeter/Andover grading system. Many schools will just take whatever you got and convert it to that, find the top students, and go from there.

We don’t do that, certainly not with grades - see my post above about our models. Once you’re academically qualified for MIT, we look at everything else.

I spent about 45 minutes on your application. I read your essays. I look up where you’re from to get a sense of your community (urban or rural? census data? affluent or poor? what was your world like)? I read your teacher recs, and excerpt them heavily, so that I know what the people who interact with you every day think of you. I look at your interview to see what someone from the MIT community thinks about a conversation with you as a person. I really try my hardest to get a sense of who you are and why you do what you do.

@Chris is me

Here’s my question about MIT: One of the big things that was told to me about MIT was their suicide rate. Is this a really big deal? What resources are there on campus for students who find themselves in these situations?

Matt addressed this recently on the website:

http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/misc/miscellaneous/talking_about_a_difficult_subj.shtml

@Matt McGann

Every so often, during the Q&A portion of an MIT information session, I am asked a question like this: Is it true that MIT has the highest suicide rate? The answer to that question is: No, this is not true; in fact, MIT is better than the national average. However, this is a serious question, and it deserves a longer response.

You should read the entire blog post. Matt put a lot of thought, numbers, and personal stories - he was President of student government when a highly publicized suicide occurred ten years ago - into it.

@Zholl

this hadn’t even occurred to me. I’m still in that spot where I’m trying to figure out where I’d like to go and whether I’d be eligible at a school before spending 50 dollars to send in an application, and it’d be good to know whether my academic qualifications would be unacceptable. the way the counselors talk doesn’t help this much, either

I’ll definitely have to keep this more towards the front of my mind moving forward

Zholl -

The most important thing for your college search process, bar none, should be match. Go visit a bunch of schools and see if you feel like you’re home when you’re on campus. If you figure that out, everything else - finances, academics, etc - will fall into place.

As for academic qualifications, you can see our data set: http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/apply/admissions_statistics/index.shtml

For personal qualifications - as much as they can be abstracted on a website, which is not very - you can see this: http://www.mitadmissions.org/topics/pulse/incoming_freshman_class_profile/index.shtml

[Ether]

[quote]Originally Posted by Greg Marra

I am worried this thread is going to descend into people worrying a lot about their grades and test scores. There are a lot of things that make you an interesting person to colleges. Among the top is passion.

Be yourself and do what you love.

Greg -

Agreed 100%. Grades and scores are important in our process, but only in a very narrow way. [/quote]

Does your financial aid office operate the same way ?

**

[CIM]

@Petey

We don’t throw students out because of minute differences. In fact, we’re one of the few highly selective colleges that don’t convert all of our incoming applicant’s GPA to the 10.0 Exeter/Andover grading system. Many schools will just take whatever you got and convert it to that, find the top students, and go from there.

We don’t do that, certainly not with grades - see my post above about our models. Once you’re academically qualified for MIT, we look at everything else.

That’s refreshing to hear. The point of what I said (poorly communicated, I know) is that if you’re worried about number x being juuust a bit low, you should consider schools that consider you for more than that, MIT being included on that list.

[Petey]

@Ether

Does your financial aid office operate the same way ?

I’m not quite sure what you mean, but our financial aid office is:

• need blind, meaning we consider applications without positive or negative prejudice associated with your financial need or lack thereof; we won’t let you in because you can pay the full ride nor deny you because you can’t pay a nickel

• need only, meaning we award financial aid on the basis of need and not merit

• full need, meaning we will meet every single cent of your family’s demonstrated financial need

@Chris is me

That’s refreshing to hear. The point of what I said (poorly communicated, I know) is that if you’re worried about number x being juuust a bit low, you should consider schools that consider you for more than that, MIT being included on that list.

thanks!

[Ether]

@Petey

I’m not quite sure what you mean

This is what I meant: Many colleges offer grants that are keyed to GPA and ACT/SAT score with a straightforward formula.

**

[Ether]

@Petey

our financial aid office is:

• need blind, meaning we consider applications without positive or negative prejudice associated with your financial need or lack thereof; we won’t let you in because you can pay the full ride nor deny you because you can’t pay a nickel

Just to be clear, it sounds like your admissions policy is need blind, not your financial aid.

**

[RoboMom]

And on a related topic:

MIT to expand enrollment with $24m gift from alumnus

[CIM]

Sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you were insinuating that aid was merit based (as in a higher GPA will get you a better amount of money from FAFSA or something). Deleting post…

[DonRotolo]

@Petey

but if anyone has any questions, I will try to get to them when I’m not reading cases

Not being in the market for admissions, I don’t have a question, but I just wanted to take a moment and publicly acknowledge your very generous offer.

While “knowing” Petey might not influence your chance at MIT directly, advice like this is very valuable; anyone should be able to recognize that.

As for your comment that “The most important thing…should be match” is oh-so-true. You do NOT want to spend 4 years somewhere you don’t like. Even if it’s MIT. There are some exceptions to this ‘rule’, but in reality nobody cares about where you graduated from *for your second job.
*

[Zholl]

@Don Rotolo

As for your comment that “The most important thing…should be match” is oh-so-true. You do NOT want to spend 4 years somewhere you don’t like. Even if it’s MIT. There are some exceptions to this ‘rule’, but in reality nobody cares about where you graduated from *for your second job.
*

do you think you could elaborate on that a little bit? obviously I haven’t entered the professional workforce yet, and given my dad’s work history I don’t think he’s a great example of what you’re trying to say here

also, as far as the whole “matching” thing, I’m curious as to the “feel” of the community there. specifically, I’m interested as to how crowded it feels around campus. I’m more used to large town to small city communities, and having spent time in the likes of San Francisco, Atlanta, and even Denver, I definitely prefer a smaller sized community anyway, but I’m not familiar with the Cambridge, MA area

[Petey]

@Ether

Just to be clear, it sounds like your admissions policy is need blind, not your financial aid.

Correct. Our financial aid is need-only, meaning we key it to your financial need, not merit (GPA/SAT/ACT/whatever).

[DonRotolo]

@Zholl

do you think you could elaborate on that a little bit? obviously I haven’t entered the professional workforce yet, and given my dad’s work history I don’t think he’s a great example of what you’re trying to say here

also, as far as the whole “matching” thing, I’m curious as to the “feel” of the community there. specifically, I’m interested as to how crowded it feels around campus. I’m more used to large town to small city communities, and having spent time in the likes of San Francisco, Atlanta, and even Denver, I definitely prefer a smaller sized community anyway, but I’m not familiar with the Cambridge, MA area

Warning: Long post

Well, I can’t comment on MIT. I graduated from SUNY Stony Brook, and that was more than half a lifetime ago. Things change in 30 years. I did spend about an hour at MIT once, just walking around. It looks like a college campus, and across the river is downtown Boston. If I recall, it was not easy to park.

On the “matching” thing, I can only relate some personal stories:

Story 1:
When I first went to college for EE, I ended up at Wilkes College in Wilkes-Barre, PA (now a university). I was very impressed by their very modern labs and facilities, rebuilt only 4 years before after a devastating flood. There were about 50 kids in the entire freshman engineering class.

A side note on the flood: Wilkes-Barre went from a vital community of 100,000 residents to less than 35,000 because of the flood. Definitely small urban, but kinda desolate in spots.

Near the end of my second year, I came to realize that the school was too small: You knew everyone too well, and couldn’t ‘get away’; many of the professors were second-rate; there were so few of them the chances of having the same awful prof in several important classes was high. The conclusion was that “facilities are meaningless, focus on how good the teachers are”. (Some of the teachers were outstanding though; I’ll never know why someone as good as Dr Bohning chose to teach chemistry at Wilkes, but suffice it to say I got an A)

So, onward to SUNY Stony Brook, a huge suburban campus with 25,000 undergrads, perhaps 1500 engineers in my class. Stony Brook was big enough to attract Nobel Laureates, have it’s own Linear Accelerator, and some of the teaching talent was outstanding (Dr. John Truxal comes to mind). Older but decent facilities, better profs. Was great for me, and I saw much better grades and was having a good time, too.

Story 2: My daughter decided to go to an urban Pennsylvania university (and got a decent scholarship), but learned that urban environments are scary for small females at night. Transfer after a year to a suburban school.

Story 3: After 15 years in After-sales Engineering (basically service and tech support) for an import car company, I decided to switch to spare parts documentation, where I made a huge impact over several years. All was well, but during that time, I did a lot of introspection, and learned some things about myself. Most important was that I really enjoyed writing, especially explaining technical topics to non-technical people. I did it for fun, after work - on forums like CD, and for some Ham Radio magazines.

So, long story short, I pursued a job in the company writing technical training, a job known as an Instructional Designer. Now I get paid to do what I really love doing, and because I love it so much, my passion and drive for excellence really shows - they like my work. And the students seem to like what I write, too, so we have a Win-Win-Win.

Does that help clarify?