Important Tie Breaking News!

Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 11/1/2000 3:42 PM MST

After thinking more and more about the idea of no tie breakers in the Elimination Rounds, we have scared ourselves into reversing course.

We are very much afraid that it will be TOO easy to end up with a 0-0 tie over and over and over again.


The following tie breakers will be used IN THE ELIMINATION ROUNDS ONLY:

#1 The alliance with the highest score based only on their color balls in squares on the ramps without regard to a) the color designation of the ramps and b) the position of the square rack.

#2 The alliance with the most balls on their side of the field (‘their side’ means the side that the drivers drive from and their color ramps are on). For the purposed of this tie breaker, EVERY ball will be ruled by the referees to be on the blue or the red side of the field based on an imaginary center of the ball and on an equally imaginary, infinite extent, infinitely thin plane separating the two halves of the field. We realize that some close calls will have to be made. We regret any bad calls the result in bad outcomes for your team. However, as with every other ruling they make, the referees’ rulings are FINAL (and this time WE MEAN IT! :wink:

Note: Tie Breaker #1 will most likely mean that a non-zero tie will most likely be lost by a team that needed the doubler to tie the score.

There are other implications, of course, but I will leave them to be worked out as an exercise for the ambitious student.


Joe J.

Posted by Bill Beatty.

Other on team #71, Team Hammond, from Team Hammond.

Posted on 11/3/2000 8:54 AM MST

In Reply to: Important Tie Breaking News! posted by Joe Johnson on 11/1/2000 3:42 PM MST:

I think some reruns might be exciting, but most states have high school marathon rules. Maybe apply the tie breakers after the first or second rerun?

Bill B

Posted by Joe Johnson.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 11/3/2000 10:10 AM MST

In Reply to: Exciting Do Overs! posted by Bill Beatty on 11/3/2000 8:54 AM MST:

Have we become too worried about 0-0 ties? Perhaps.

But… We have decided that erring on the side of the team that DOES something was the way to go.

It would be pretty painful to watch 6 robots locked in a 0-0 death struggle for a good part of 3 minutes.

We reasoned that while it would be possible for one alliance to block the other from 2 ramps, keeping them from all 4 would be next to impossible.

Also, don’t neglect the importance of the second tie breaker. Specifically, it makes it tricky for an alliance to play defense by ball hording.

To illustrate, consider the following:
If all the blue balls are off the blue ramp but pushed deep into the blue territory, red might be tempted to run out the clock by tieing the blue robots up. After all, the blue team can’t score (even on the red ramps to take advantage of Tie Breaker #1) if there are no blue balls available to score with. This is where Tie Breaker #2 makes this a risky strategy. If the blue team gets even a few red balls onto the blue side of the field, they will win the match via Tie Breaker #2. So… Red has to push some balls over to the red side – where, perhaps there is a chance that a blue robot may try to pick a blue one up and score with it – either on the blue ramp, to win outright, or on the red ramp, to win via Tie Breaker #1)

The intent at every turn this that ACTION IS REWARDED.

Play ball!

Joe J.

P.S. We have often lamented that fact that often, the FIRST Elimination Rounds are not as action oriented as we would have liked. We are trying to come up with a system that addresses that concern we have. You folks all get to be our test subjects :wink: Only time will tell how successful we were.

Posted by Raul.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

Posted on 11/3/2000 11:18 AM MST

In Reply to: High school marathon rules? posted by Joe Johnson on 11/3/2000 10:10 AM MST:


Your tie breaker rules make sense.

Do you realize that if you would have made one simple rule change (actually, not made a change from last year), you would have eliminated the defensive nature a lot more.

Confused? I am refering to the rule last year that if a robot was touching the top surface of a ramp at the end of the match, it would give 20 points to the opponent. If that rule were in affect this year, I doubt many teams would consider blocking the ramps at the end fearing they may get pushed onto them. Also, if you left the holes in the ramps the way they were (deeper), the balls would not be knocked out so easily.

Please, do misinterpret my statements as complaints. I like the game the way it is. It is more of a challenge on strategy and not just on robot execution.

Good job!