In & Out

[archiver]

Posted by Robby at 04/15/2001 6:25 PM EST

Other on team #108, The SigmaC@Ts, from AIFL and Motorola.

Reading through the posts recently I’ve noticed a lot of people either fed up with FIRST or thier team or just leaving for thier own reasons. Still others are addicted as ever continuing thier fanatacism for 8, 9, and for a lucky few 10 years.

I’d hate FIRST to become like everything else with people being totally against it or totally for it. What reason would there be to hate it? It’s a lot of work agreed, but in the end it’s worth it if one has the patience.

For me I know I got fed up with the way the team I came from functioned. It seemed like there was no logic to the way it was run, just a lot of patting on the back and “good job” when there were few good job’s done.

Now for anyone from that team who is reading this post, dont take offense just yet. I dont mean everyone, but certain big-egoed others. They really can bring down a team by consistantly putting other ideas down or out of the way. And there are more way’s of killing the FIRST spirit than that, and one is to be only in it for winning.

There are a lot of great teams out there who are bottom of the bunch with lowest of the low scores. Yknow what they do at competitions? Have a good time. That’s what it’s all about folks. Having a good time. If an individual is not having a good time, why spoil it for the rest? Find some other way of still participating in FIRST without having the troubles that are bringing you down.

If I had allowed the effects of my last year on a team affect my outlook on FIRST, I would probably hate everything about it too. I used to have a best friend who was on the team with me and he did just that. Let it all go because the team wasnt working out the way he wanted. He doesnt participate in FIRST anymore and in some ways I think it was a loss on both sides. He really had some good ideas and I would hate to see a leader of the community leave because of a bad year.

If nothing else help out where you can. Volunteer as a referee or email FIRST asking how you can help out. At least until you find another team you can work with. Right now I’m doing just that and will continue to even if I join another team.

I hope everything works out for the better no matter what choice these people make. Stay. Go. Join another team. Bah… where the heck was I going with this? Ah well, it’ll be just another post. Well, since I just killed all the emotional parts of this post, anyone care to post a follow-up?

-Robby O
FIRSTanimators Moderator

[archiver]

Posted by Patrick Dingle at 04/15/2001 6:45 PM EST

College Student on team #639, Red B^2, from Ithaca High School and Cornell University.

In Reply to: In & Out
Posted by Robby on 04/15/2001 6:25 PM EST:

Some excellent comments Robbie… Couldn’t agree with you more.

One thing about team function – Having been on both sides of the spectrum (HS student in '99 & '00, Mentor in '01), I have looked at team function from both angles. As a student in '99 & '00 I sometimes ran into things I didn’t like about the team structure. However, I never said anything. Now, having been a mentor this year, I realize that it’s hard to realize students are dissatisfied about something unless you speak up!!! Especially after a rookie year, the best thing you can do is have meetings with the students, mentors, engineers, and parents, to find out everyone’s true opinions and make changes accordingly.

I couldn’t agree with you more about going to comps to just have fun – Back in '99, I gotta admit my attitude was all about winning, but now I know that winning is nothing. It’s great to be rewarded for a lot of hard effort, but I strongly believe more is learned when one doesn’t take home the gold.

Patrick

: Reading through the posts recently I’ve noticed a lot of people either fed up with FIRST or thier team or just leaving for thier own reasons. Still others are addicted as ever continuing thier fanatacism for 8, 9, and for a lucky few 10 years.

: I’d hate FIRST to become like everything else with people being totally against it or totally for it. What reason would there be to hate it? It’s a lot of work agreed, but in the end it’s worth it if one has the patience.

: For me I know I got fed up with the way the team I came from functioned. It seemed like there was no logic to the way it was run, just a lot of patting on the back and “good job” when there were few good job’s done.

: Now for anyone from that team who is reading this post, dont take offense just yet. I dont mean everyone, but certain big-egoed others. They really can bring down a team by consistantly putting other ideas down or out of the way. And there are more way’s of killing the FIRST spirit than that, and one is to be only in it for winning.

: There are a lot of great teams out there who are bottom of the bunch with lowest of the low scores. Yknow what they do at competitions? Have a good time. That’s what it’s all about folks. Having a good time. If an individual is not having a good time, why spoil it for the rest? Find some other way of still participating in FIRST without having the troubles that are bringing you down.

: If I had allowed the effects of my last year on a team affect my outlook on FIRST, I would probably hate everything about it too. I used to have a best friend who was on the team with me and he did just that. Let it all go because the team wasnt working out the way he wanted. He doesnt participate in FIRST anymore and in some ways I think it was a loss on both sides. He really had some good ideas and I would hate to see a leader of the community leave because of a bad year.

: If nothing else help out where you can. Volunteer as a referee or email FIRST asking how you can help out. At least until you find another team you can work with. Right now I’m doing just that and will continue to even if I join another team.

: I hope everything works out for the better no matter what choice these people make. Stay. Go. Join another team. Bah… where the heck was I going with this? Ah well, it’ll be just another post. Well, since I just killed all the emotional parts of this post, anyone care to post a follow-up?

: -Robby O
: FIRSTanimators Moderator

[archiver]

Posted by colleen - T190 at 04/15/2001 7:33 PM EST

Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Massachusetts Academy of Math and Science and WPI.

In Reply to: Re: In & Out
Posted by Patrick Dingle on 04/15/2001 6:45 PM EST:

I was just thinking of posting on this… Robby read my mind… he’s good at that

In any case… I’m having a lot of trouble right now/this year… for the extra reasons that Pat is talking about…

I was on a team in high school for 4 years where winning isn’t the focus, it just happens to be a habit… they take great pride in building a quality robot as well as all other aspects of the team (on of the best individual strategy/scouting efforts around…)… winning was just the way it was… by the time my senior came, I found myself disappointed if we finished 10th out of 200+ teams…

Then last year I went to BU… 2-year team with a good attitude as really the only thing going for them… It took a lot of work and a lot of time in areas I’d never run before… the kids voted on drivers cause the robot never moved before it went in the crate… we flew by nothing… we seeded and finished dead last in NJ… and I never had a better time… it through it all into perspective for the first time since freshman/sophomore year in high school… that it’s not the outcome… it’s what you do to get there… I learned to have fun in last place… and that 40th of 40th didn’t mean that you didn’t try as hard as the guys that were #1… you just had to try even harder next time to get there… At nationals we won 5 of 7 matches… seeded in the top 100… still had a grand old time… worrying about the kids and making sure they were enjoying their FIRST experience and not just winning…

This year I came to WPI… it started out somewhat like being at BU… more casual… get everyone in and working on stuff attitude… and as time progressed and we were really ahead of schedule… and for the first time in a while, we realized the robot would be done ahead of schedule and hey! we might make all the practice rounds and matches at the first regional… sure enough we did… with a good robot too… and as on-field coach… i tried my very best to do what was best for the alliance and my team and novice drivers and operators… and things started changing back to the way they were my senior year… not with me, but with everyone else on the team seemingly… I was caught in trying to make a worthy experience for the kids on my team and making sure they enjoyed the experience so they would return the next year and continue into engineering… and everyone else was taking the ‘gotta win’ attitude… it made it very hard… because when I tried to do things from the ‘we’re in it for the win perspective’ people were unhappy, i became unhappy, and it wasn’t very FIRST-ish… when i took the ‘we’re in it for the experience’ perspective… nothing seemed right or to flow between myself and teammates…

So right now, I’m definitely in the “In or Out?” mode… I wonder if some days if it’s me that’s not doing it right… or others… or if we’re all doing it ‘right’ and it’s just a different definition of right?

To me… FIRST is for everyone… not just HS students… future society will be the benefactor to their involvement… but it’s just as much learning for college kids, engineers, parents, etc as it is for the students…

But I gotta wonder if I’m learning the wrong things somedays… or teaching the wrong ones… or I’m just out in left field…