Interested in Extrusions and Fasteners?

Technical Technical Discussion
1

Our team has used aluminum extrusions for the past two years, ever since FIRST has opened up the additional hardware rule for extrusions.

We’ve also used the special fasteners that go with these extrusions. A company based out of Texas, called IPS (formerly Item Products) has given our team a good discount both years.

Let me tell you that these extrusions and fasteners are really cool to use on a FIRST robot. They let you change things during debug… adjustments are easy.

IPS uses a “t-slot” extrusion system. Small Parts sold a few choices to FIRST teams last year, a similar product from Bosch. Other companies like 80/20, ParFrame, Item MB, and others make similar good products.

The hard thing about the “t-slot” extrusion/fastener system is that it is kinda hard to get use to at first. If you are not familiar with the system, you don’t know what fasteners to order, and you don’t know what extrusions, fasteners, or bracketing will work for your FIRST robot.

I’ve had the opportunity to work with this t-slot stuff for about 10 years now, and I’m pretty use to it.

Let me cut to the chase…

IPS can provide FIRST teams with 2 things this year:

  1. a discount. They are offering 40% price reduction on their extrusion products, and 50% price reduction on their fasteners and hardware (brackets, etc.) to FIRST teams.
  2. two “kits”. I’ve speced out a “big kit” and a “small kit”.
    … a “big kit” is about what we used last year. It was enough to build two robots (although we didn’t) and to do some proto-typing and changing. It would cost around $1,000.
    … a “small kit” would be the bare bones for one robot. The small kit would cost around $350-375.

Since these kits would be set up, your team could just call up IPS and order one of the two kits(and/or other stuff also), and they would deliver within 5 working days.

I can go into the details about what parts are in each kit in another post.

Would any of your teams be interested in this offer from IPS: Industrial Profile Systems?

I have no stake in this… IPS is offering us the same deal as everyone else. I’m just trying to pass along information that may help out your team.

(Andy edit: see note below for information about electrical connectors from Anderson Power Products)

Andy B.

2

Andy,

You have out done yourself!

Is the kit available right now?

Will you publish the BOM of the kits?

I really like this idea of sharing basics so that more teams can come to the competitions with running robots.

Any other ideas out there?

Do tell…

Joe J.

3

Ths first thing I suggest is to is get their catolog. Call this number: 800-333-4932 to get the latest catolog.

I’ll attach a Word file that shows the BOMs for the “Big Kit” and the “Small Kit”.

Contact at IPS: Marc Marcangelo at "marcmarcangelo@ips-I.com"

I think that you could buy these kits now from IPS. Contact Marc and he will take care of you. Call him at the number above if you are interested.

Keep in mind that you are not limited to buying just the kits. IPS will sell all of their stuff at a discounted price to FIRST teams. Once you get the catolog, you may decide to buy other parts than what I spec’ed out in the Kits.

Andy B.

ips first kits.doc (30 KB)


ips first kits.doc (30 KB)

4

Thanks for the great information about the extrusion, Andy. We’ve been using Item for 2 years and it has been very reliable and easy for the students to work with.

Could you also post info on the power connectors you used this year. A model number and distributor would be helpful. I saw the connectors on the arm assembly for quick connect/disconnect. I haven’t used them before, but they look more reliable than the crimp connectors we get in the kit.

Also, I liked the idea of adding “extra” programming and tether ports at an easy to reach location on your robot so you don’t have to reach inside the wiring to plug in.

Thanks,
Jason

5

Jason,

Thanks for taking notice. We put alot of effort into our electrical system this year. Mike Stahl is our main electrical leader. He is a UAW Electrician here at Delphi, and he does excellent work. Matt Lundberg also gets credit for helping him out as our student electrical leader.

Mike specified the Anderson Power Products (APP) connectors for us to use on the robot. FIRST uses some of their connectors in our kits, and APP provides us a catolog in the kit, I think.

Here is a Word document covering the parts we ordered from APP. We went to CW Distribution in Minnesota upon referral from APP, since a local distributor would only sell minimum quantities of 100-200 connectors at a time.

This package of electrical connectors is really nice for a FIRST robot, but the crimper is expensive.

I hope this works for the rest of you.

Andy B.

app parts 01.doc (29 KB)


app parts 01.doc (29 KB)

6

*Originally posted by Joe Johnson *
**
I really like this idea of sharing basics so that more teams can come to the competitions with running robots.

Any other ideas out there?

Do tell…

Joe J. **

Joe,

We had such a good experience with 80/20 this year that we often joked about selling Bobcat kits :slight_smile: . It prompted me to wonder if there could be a “Building with 80/20 (or other extrusions)” component to the ChiefDelphi Rookie clinic that you folks put on. It is not unrealistic to think that three or four people could assemble a functional drive base in a couple of hours (while the rest of the clinic was running). It would really drive home the advantages of using 80/20 and get those rookies thinking about putting together something drivable ASAP.

P.J.

7

We had a company called 80/20, which is baised out of Columbia City, IN, come into our school in mid May. They brought in this demo table thing with everything imaginable in it. Everybody in the room was just about drewling all over the thing. Including the girls. volleygrrl234 could tell you what it was like. The possibilities are endless with extrusions. We had our chassis for our robot done in 2 days with extrusions, compared to 1 week to 2 weeks with alluminm angle. It makes life SOOOOO much easier. If you wanted to, you could give them your ideas for a robot cart or a robot crate and they would help you design it. I would recommend extrusions to everybody. It is really cool stuff to work with:cool:

http://www.8020.net/

8

The idea of having a working with standard extrustions 101 class, especially one that has a basic chassis design as a big part of the syllabus would be excellent.

In my mind, one of the saddest parts of a FIRST competitions is seeing folks that have worked hard for so long have such a lousy time because their robot only drives in circles (Clockwise, then Counter Clockwise, etc.) for two minutes. A good primer on getting a moving robot would be a huge huge huge bonus to a FIRST rookie camp.

Now if only FIRST would have a 1 day (or even several day) rookie camp on FRIDAY before the kickoff…

… we will have to work on them.

The 80/20 Class is a step in the right direction.

Joe J.

9

Thanks for the quick response, Andy. You’re right about the crimping tool being so expensive. Maybe I can trade in a few of those FIRST crimpers we get with the kit. :wink:

Speaking of #177, I was most impressed with the motor mounts on the Bobcat. They looked like modified connector plates so you could mount the motors any where you wanted. P.J., any hopes of publishing the details of the drill motor mounts? I think this would complement #45’s design from last year.

-Jason

10

*Originally posted by jrukes *
**

Speaking of #177, I was most impressed with the motor mounts on the Bobcat. They looked like modified connector plates so you could mount the motors any where you wanted.
-Jason **

We were very proud of the simplicity of our chassis design this year. Thanks for noticing!

Yes, the motor mounts consist partially of modified 80/20 joining plates. It would not have been any harder to just use 1/4" aluminum though. I will see about posting the details. Our drill motor mounting technique was developed before I joined the team and I don’t know if it is considered a “trade secret” or not.

In the mean time, I’ve attached a picture of the motor mounts that was in the “Keeping it Simple” poster that we had on display at nationals.

mvc-002f.jpg


mvc-002f.jpg

11

*Originally posted by P.J. Baker *
**

We were very proud of the simplicity of our chassis design this year. Thanks for noticing!

Yes, the motor mounts consist partially of modified 80/20 joining plates. It would not have been any harder to just use 1/4" aluminum though. I will see about posting the details. Our drill motor mounting technique was developed before I joined the team and I don’t know if it is considered a “trade secret” or not.

In the mean time, I’ve attached a picture of the motor mounts that was in the “Keeping it Simple” poster that we had on display at nationals. **

With #45’s extrusion kit, #177’s motor mounts, all we’d need is a simple way to mount the wheels and all teams could have their base running in the first week. Dare I say it could be the next generation CDI kit:D

-Jason

12

*Originally posted by jrukes *
**

With #45’s extrusion kit, #177’s motor mounts, all we’d need is a simple way to mount the wheels and all teams could have their base running in the first week. Dare I say it could be the next generation CDI kit:D

-Jason **

I don’t have a picture, but I’ll say this: Either you’re playing with me, or you were too busy admiring the motor mounts to notice our blindingly simple wheel mounts ;).

13

*Originally posted by jrukes *
**

With #45’s extrusion kit, #177’s motor mounts, all we’d need is a simple way to mount the wheels and all teams could have their base running in the first week. Dare I say it could be the next generation CDI kit:D

-Jason **

Well, here is a pic of our wheel mounts. It isn’t the greatest pic. I can get one if someone wants it. It was pretty easy to do. It’s mounted with (4) T-nuts, 2 on each side of the wheel. I’m not very good at explaining it. If you want to know exactly how we did it, you can email Eric at: eric.engebretsen@aadc.com If you wanna see some more pics, you can go to our Photo Gallery

dscf0189.jpg


dscf0189.jpg

14

Here is our motor mount that we used on our robot this year. It is the design that Kokomo developed and used on their robot in 2000 (I think). We never had one problem with it. Unlike 2000 for us, we burned up about 6 drill motors over the course of the whole year. It’s a wonderful design Andy!! If you wanna see some more pics, you can go to our Photo Gallery

dscf0150.jpg


dscf0150.jpg

15

Here is a picture of 177’s chassis. The wheels aren’t mounted, but you can see where they go.

16

*Originally posted by P.J. Baker *
**

I don’t have a picture, but I’ll say this: Either you’re playing with me, or you were too busy admiring the motor mounts to notice our blindingly simple wheel mounts ;). **

You guys were across from us in the Galileo pits, but I only had a chance to stop by for about 2 minutes. I was inspired by your poster board that showed how your robot went together. Everything looked so simple I didn’t pay attention to how the wheels were mounted.

-Jason

17

For all of you that are using aluminum extrusion for your robots or models, I would highly recommend you use the German brand “item”. item is a global company with distribution in over 30 countries including the USA. We have nationwide service centers that can cut, drill and tap your product for you and help with engineering and applications assistance. item is by far the strongest, lightest, and most diverse extrusion system in the world. If you send me a list of what you need and what processing you want, I will turn your order around in one day - guaranteed. Please call me at 262-363-4800 or email loren@item-midwest.com M-Sat 9am - 9pm CST. I have been authorized to offer the FIRST teams a substantial discount -we currently support other FIRST teams and we will support yours.

Loren
Team 930