This is exactly what i’m talking about! It’s safer amd better for everyone, and makes the team a more welcoming place for disabled people because they don’t have to be brave and ask for a policy exemption on their own.
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But, that’s an accommodation for your specific disability. And you want all teams to institute that. That helps you and people like you. But, it doesn’t help people who have other disabilities. A different team is more likely to have people with a different disability than somebody with your disability. The better approach is to figure out the accommodations that students actually need, instead of implementing an accommodation just in case somebody has a postviral syndrome.
And, realistically, if it’s noon on Saturday, our first competition is next weekend, the robot isn’t working, and you’re the lead programmer, “I need a break, see you on Monday” is not going to go over well. And, that’s especially true if you could have given a heads-up about your condition, but didn’t.
Also, note that I’m coming at this from the perspective of a community-based team. If yours is a school-based team, then the team will generally have to comply with all of the privacy/disability laws that the school itself has to comply with.
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One thing that we implemented years ago was different shirts on different days at competitions. This way we at least know they are wearing a clean shirt each day. Our colors are red and black so it’s usually something like black team Friday, team polo on Saturday, red team shirt on Sunday (we play in districts).
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Isn’t that not the kind of culture we want to promote? If someone didn’t have a condition at all, but just needed a break to take care of themselves physically/mentally, the team should be supportive of that, right? Being close to competition doesn’t change the fact that health and safety comes first. If the team genuinely won’t function without this one person, then that seems like the team’s responsibility, not the individual’s. If you accept that as true, then whether a person has a condition or has disclosed it shouldn’t matter.
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Wha?
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In general, yes. Priority lists like this go top down, so it’s important not only for mentors to recognize it and talk about it, but for student leaders on the team to lead by example. We always have two captains, and we tell them right up front - there are two of them, which means each of them doesn’t have to be there for everything. If they’re going to be gone one evening, that’s fine - their fellow captain will be there to handle things. If they’llLimelight, an integrated vision coprocessor both be gone, that’s fine - we have mentors who can step in if needed, or they can identify another student leader to take over for the night. And when you see captains and other student leaders taking time off when needed, that makes it ok for everyone else.
If it’s something that has no impact on their participation within the team, then certainly. But there ARE cases where that private medical info is necessary for the adult leaders, who have taken on responsibility for the care of the students, to know. As a very mild example, it’s important for us to know what allergies students have, so we can plan the meals we make available appropriately - but that is private medical information. If a student has a seizure disorder, that’s something we’llLimelight, an integrated vision coprocessor want to discuss and understand before placing them in a situation where that could become exceedingly dangerous.
There’s a whole spectrum of medical info, ranging from “doesn’t matter in this context” to “this is something that others have a need to know”. It’s important to be able to judge where any particular issue falls on that spectrum, and to handle it appropriate with the groups and authority figures within those groups.
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Oh! Yes, my team does that. We usually do this order:
Wednesday (optional): Other team shirt or school related shirt
Thursday: Standard shirt
Friday: Game specific shirt
Saturday: Polos
I want to promote a culture that builds perseverance and endurance and that teaches students to tackle and overcome obstacles, among other things. I want to promote a culture that prepares students for a world where they will need to work hard, where they will face adversity, and where other people can depend on them.
Everybody needs a break. So, take 15 minutes. Take a walk and cool off. But, if you’re going to bail for a day and a half at the most critical time, that’s going to need a little more explanation than just “I need a break.”
To quote Donald Rumsfeld: “You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.” It would be awesome if every team had depth in every role. But, that’s not the reality for most teams. Scrappy underdogs have a place in FRCFIRST Robotics Competition also.
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To paraphrase Sun Tzu: Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.
You’re arguing with a high school student about planning ahead vs staying up late as a form of perseverance…
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This is the type of uber-competitive atmosphere that I, personally, think is detrimental to our students mental health and wellbeing. They don’t need that enforced stress of feeling like the entire season and success of the team depends on them being there working like mad at the end of the season.
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Also, FRCFIRST Robotics Competition isn’t war. I think trying to push students like that is just a recipe for burnout and isn’t going to help the team in the long run.
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Burnout, it happens to the best of us. Sometimes someones just tired of FRCFIRST Robotics Competition, and 15 minutes away from it isnt going to fix it. People need time away from even the most passionate of their hobbies, and it isn’t healthy to keep at something while in burnout mode. So yeah, as long as someone says they are going to take a break and doesn’t just ghost, saying “I need a break” is perfectly fine.
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If the success or failure of the season hinges on one student being there then there has been a failure by mentors to build systems in which students can grow and succeed.
Recognizing limits and communicating needs are both critical skills for students to learn. I’d be proud if a student came and said “I know you were counting on me to do X but I can’t right now.” It shows an understanding of their needs and those of the team and respect for the team by communicating their needs.
(In case it’s not clear - 100% agree with you here, Jon)
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This is…an alarming take.
Most organizations have some obligation to comply with disability regulations, and even if they don’t have a legal obligation, they certainly have a moral one.
And the specific accommodation you’re refuting is someone who is asking for leniency in letting people take a breather – something all of us can benefit from every now and then, regardless of ability. I don’t see how anyone could possibly argue against what’s maybe the most reasonable accommodation to ever be requested.
Gross.
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What the heck is it with people quoting Donald Rumsfeld on here recently?
Evergreen reply, apparently:
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I got my degree in architecture from university. I was constantly making models. It was one of my least favorite parts of it though. Then I took a non architecture class, but me and my partner decided to make a model for it. We did it in like our spare time though, no time pressure, we spread it out over the semester, thought about it, had fun with it. It was the model I most enjoyed making of all the physical projects I did. The excessive pressure most certainly is not a good thing. It was also probably the best model I made.
Winning is nice, but this program is here for people to learn, and putting crazy pressures on them will reduce the amount of learning going on I think. (I’m not saying zero pressure is the answer, life has pressures we have to learn to deal with, but there’s no need to be ridiculous about it, sometimes, people indeed need a break. Lord knows, I need a break.
(just to make it clear, I amAndyMark agreeing with your sentiment 
) .
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This is something few adults seem to be able to do, and I wish more people would learn to do this, and it is OK to do this IMO. I soooooooooo much prefer someone telling me this, over them saying “yup I’llLimelight, an integrated vision coprocessor do it”, and then not do it. The sooner you tell me this, the better, then I can plan a way to make it up(find someone else, plan my time so I do it myself, etc.).
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Oh yeah, I struggle with it. Get yelled grumbled at constantly by my manager. It’s definitely a weakness.
Edit: I called it yelling, my manager is great and he grumbles at me when I make the same mistake. Just a “come on dude, let’s try this again” nothing mean.
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Though I am not disabled myself, I definitely understand what you’re talking about. Robotics is a lot of time, and work can get stressful super quickly. I enjoy personally training people that are in lower classes to do what I do to the best of their abilities, that way if I absolutely need to take a break, they can fill in for me until I’m able to come back. I agree with the others in this thread that If you’re the sole member of a team that is able to do a task that is needed, that’s a problem. At LEAST two people should have knowledge of how to do tasks that are needed, and preferably that’s taught to others as well so that not as much stress falls onto one person.
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Meh. You’re talking that out of context. I was just saying that school-based teams have to comply with stringent rules under laws like the Rehabilitation Act, IDEA and FERPA. Not a lot of discretion there. That doesn’t mean that community-based teams should ignore student disabilities, only that they have a lot more flexibility.