Is 1678 going to win worlds?

#1

Okay hear me out. I know they will potentially be going up against 1323 and 254, but the 36 point climb is insane! After seeing them at AVR with essentially 254 (Code orange has the turreting elevator), they were loosing and would have almost multiple matches(I think I am too lazy to check now) but the triple climb saved them. I didn’t see any other team with a 36 point climb but 1678 has so many points as a buffer they can slow down their opponent and use the 36 points to their advantage and win every match. I think its cool but gonna be very lethal to teams in their division.

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#2

Yes, since I am the all knowing Chief Delphi user, I can guarantee that this team will win the championship.

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#3

Thanks all knowing Chief Delphi user!

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#4

I think that they will lose to 1323, since some kind lad on Chief Delphi suggested they pick 2910.

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#5

Wait I thought it was reverse mind game 4d chess to get them to pick 973 so they’ll lose to 1323 973.

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#6

5d chess you fool 4d is for the intellectually inferior.

I also just realized that 4d chess is real no offense to you 4d chess players.

#7

imo the triple climb is over-rated. It’s not actually 36 points no other team has, it’s more like 12-18 (12 if both partners can do a double, 18 if both partners just drive onto l1). Add in the fact that it takes appreciably longer to line up than other climbers, and it probably ends up being worth 8ish additional points over a standard l3 climb since all 3 teams could be scoring/defending in those last few seconds if they weren’t lining up for the triple. Also factor in the risk of one robot not lining up, and the potential for the last bot to get defended from joining the climb, and I’d give the triple triple an overall benefit on the order of a couple of points when compared to a good standard l3 climb. Not nothing of course, but not something I’d personally be too afraid of going up against.

It’s actually a much more effective mechanism at lower levels of play because if your partners aren’t as good you’re not sacrificing as much by having them spend time lining up. In those cases I’d put its value on the order of 10 points over a standard l3 climb.

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#8

THE GOD SPEAKS! Yea I understand times but that time certainly adds up and I think at least 45-50 seconds they would loose as a team with 1678 loosing the most.

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#9

I think we’ve yet to see citrus really push how fast they can pull off the triple climb. Especially since they’ll have multiple matches with the same alliance partners so all the drivers can get quick at it by Einstein’s when it’s really going to count.
Yes I assume they make it to Einstein they have the past 6 years.
Still my money’s on 1323 + 2910.

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#10

I’m having a hard time understanding the notion that 1323 will pick 2910. Wouldn’t 1323 be more interested in a robot that can fill a rocket? 2910 is handicapped in elims because filling 2 rockets will almost be essential to get to Einstein. A 3rd robot having the capability to fill a rocket by themselves in Houston will be nearly impossible to come by.

Maybe 2910 could fill the first level of the each rocket and 1323 could finish the top 2 levels, but I just see that being a strategic nightmare due to defense.

#11

You have the cargo ship and the meta is looking like it’s 2 defense 1 offense. With that meta it is highly unlikely you would need more than level 1 and 1 rocket.

#12

I guess I can see that, but then again we won 2 events on the 3 offense bot strategy - 1 robot on each rocket and one on the cargo ship. I feel like the cargo ship will be full in most elims matches and that extra rocket will be what puts you over the top in points.

#13

I don’t think 3 robots on offense will work that well in worlds. If we see defense increase, it’s going to get congested with 4 robots on one side of the field. Also, especially when you are up against some high high performance robots, it is likely that the 3rd robot of the alliance can “score” more effective points by preventing other robots from scoring. This is what I think at least.

#14

If you’ve got one robot that can do Lvl 3 and two that can do Lvl 2, really only a 12 point difference at that point. I’m sure we will see a lot more double Lvl 3 climbs, along with a Lvl 2. With the amount of time it takes to lineup and go up, one robot from the other alliance who can continue to score and get to Lvl 2 fast can prob get those extra points without any problem.

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#15

12 points is like, at the highest levels of play, 10% of a final score, and usually quite a bit more than that. Not really an “only” sort of thing.

I do think there will be more double climbs - there are a solid number of robots that can make it work. Second round picks that can quickly land on level 2, and can score two cargo in the extra 10 seconds or so they get, may be hard to come by in most divisions.

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#16

A lot of it drives from them being almost complete un-defendable. Both of those teams essentially just pirouette around defenders and are able to put up huge scores because of it.

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#17

Max points you can get from the cargoship by a robot that primarily focuses on the rocket is 3-point cargo for each of the 6 side holes plus the 10 points on the front = 28. The rocket is 30 points, so in this sense, the rocket is worth more. (assuming the full rocket is all they’ll have time for because of defense)

But 2910 is different in this way because they start each CargoShip with cargo instead of null hatches. So the max points they can get on the cargo ship is 5 for each space = 40. Then they usually have time to do the first level of the rocket as well, but let’s say défense gets played so they don’t have time. 40 > 30, so 2910 makes sense as a 1st pick if défense is factored.

I guess we’ll see what strategic decisions 1323 wants to make. If they consider the max amounts of points is more important than points while under defense, then a rocket bot who can put 3 cargo in the ship is what they’ll go for. But I think 2910 would be a better pick because they can get more points doing the cargoship while under defense.

Note: defense is just an assumption, idk how much either 973 or 2910 can actually score under defense.

#18

2910 only got 4 cycles when being defended by 4911 but teams are going to have to decide to defend either 2910 or 1323 and with a good enough defender and a faster cycler on your side, you could end up winning. There are a lot of if there though.

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#19

For a real world example, last weekend at PNCMP, 2910 and 2046 were scoring between 90 and 110 points with their third robot playing exclusively defense. 1323 is at least as strong as 2046 and 2910 remains arguably the fastest cycler in the world. If that combination can find a strong defense bot I struggle to see an alliance that can beat it.

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#20

Agreed, but I would venture a guess to say that 1323 2910 and a counter-defense bot. They can outscore everyone when uncontested by defense so if their 3rd pick plays counter defense then they won’t lose a match.

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