IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS

Posted by Rimple Bhakta at 2/5/2001 3:48 PM EST

Other on team #438, Gladiators, from Jack Yates High School and Mrs. Reagan Flowers.

hello once again…
is anyone taking advantage of then pnuematics system
…?

pnuematics are pretty cool if u know how to work with him
i hope to see a lot of pnuematics at competition

and also im planning to make another flash based
website againf or FIRST this time though

does anyone have any design suggestions or want to be
part of a flash link from us

please email me or notify me
[email protected]

Posted by Erin at 2/5/2001 5:43 PM EST

Other on team #65, Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.

In Reply to: IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS
Posted by Rimple Bhakta on 2/5/2001 3:48 PM EST:

we may…
or may not be :slight_smile: (find out at west michigan!)

i don’t think the important question is just if they are using pneumatics, but if they are how effectively they are using them :slight_smile:

that was a good question though, and i would really like to see how it is answered (seeing that most people probably won’t even tell).

Please, do tell :slight_smile:

Erin
“Erin’s Pascal’s Law- If someone’s head is filled with air, the pressure is equal across all area of the head.”

Posted by Michael Bloomfield at 2/5/2001 6:36 PM EST

Student on team Robotic Plague from Staten Island Tech sponsored by Verizon.

In Reply to: Re: IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS
Posted by Erin on 2/5/2001 5:43 PM EST:

We are using the Pnuematics for the claw, which will grab the goal and hold it in place while we drag it around. We will be charging them before every match because the pump does use lots and lots of the juice in the battery. We get around 10-12 open/closes before it is useless. They are awesome though and make some cool noises. Like your at a roller coaster…stand clear of the closing rests…pufff…LoL. What everyone else using them for?

Posted by Joe Johnson at 2/5/2001 8:24 PM EST

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

In Reply to: Re: IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS
Posted by Michael Bloomfield on 2/5/2001 6:36 PM EST:

Believe it or not Chief Delphi WILL be using the
pneumatics this year.

Our machine is pretty much useless without them in fact.

Check us out in the pits. No explanations just yet.
Soon, very soon, but not yet.

Joe J.

Posted by Anton Abaya at 2/7/2001 12:08 AM EST

Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and NONE AT THE MOMENT! :(.

In Reply to: HELL FREEZES OVER !!! CHIEF DELPHI TO USE PNEUMATICS!!!
Posted by Joe Johnson on 2/5/2001 8:24 PM EST:

hmmm :slight_smile:

-anton

Posted by Bill Beatty at 2/9/2001 10:54 AM EST

Other on team #71, Team Hammond, from Team Hammond.

In Reply to: HELL FREEZES OVER !!! CHIEF DELPHI TO USE PNEUMATICS!!!
Posted by Joe Johnson on 2/5/2001 8:24 PM EST:

I talked to the pneumatics folks today. They have processed orders for approx. 300 teams so far!

Mr Bill

Posted by Chris Hardman at 2/5/2001 6:09 PM EST

Student on team #111, WILDSTANG, from Rolling Meadows and Wheeling High schools and motorola.

In Reply to: IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS
Posted by Rimple Bhakta on 2/5/2001 3:48 PM EST:

: hello once again…
: is anyone taking advantage of then pnuematics system
: …?

yea pneumatics are awesome (and they make cool noises) but they also add tons of weight, and are unreliable un 20 psi. so unless you keep the pump turned on which draws a lot of power from the battery and the rest of the robot. unless you are charging your system before the match and just using whatever the tank has stored in it.

chris

Posted by Kai Zhao at 2/5/2001 6:57 PM EST

Student on team #686, Botler & Associates, from Linganore High School, Frederick MD and NASA/GFSC and Smiths Industries.

In Reply to: IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS
Posted by Rimple Bhakta on 2/5/2001 3:48 PM EST:

We are using pneumatics to help lower the bridge and stow the front grabber in the robot (to save space). However, we are having problems keeping in air. Our pressure drops about 1 psi/sec. We did wrap all of the pipes in teflon (before that, we couldn’t get more than 20 psi). Hence, we might leave the pump always on. It only drains 2-3 amps, right? If I feel the need, I’ll make a half decent routine in the program to turn the pump off but I’m afraid of the pump constantly turning on and off.

We are using the pump -> one tank (-> pressure “limit switch”) -> SMC pressure regulator -> “union T” -> solenoids. Are we something wrong? Any ideas? Thanks

-kai

Posted by Joe Johnson at 2/5/2001 8:20 PM EST

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

In Reply to: Re: IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS
Posted by Kai Zhao on 2/5/2001 6:57 PM EST:

Something seems wrong. Our table top set up (a.k.a.
“the rats nest”) doesn’t leak that fast.

Check all your fittings for leaks.

Joe J.

Posted by ChrisH at 2/6/2001 12:12 AM EST

Engineer on team #330, Beach 'Bots, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA JPL, J & F Machine, Raytheon, et al.

In Reply to: Shouldn’t leak that fast…
Posted by Joe Johnson on 2/5/2001 8:20 PM EST:

: Something seems wrong. Our table top set up (a.k.a.
: “the rats nest”) doesn’t leak that fast.

: Check all your fittings for leaks.

: Joe J.

Our table top set up didn’t leak at all, at least not noticably. First I’d run all of your tube ends through the fancy little tube cutter they gave you in the kit. Make sure the tube is in the bottom of the “V” before cutting it.

If this doesn’t stop the leak(s), use some of my magic leak detector fluid. I’d sell you some for big $$ but I don’t have time to go through all of the environmental paperwork to be able to market it. So I’ll give you the recipe and you can make your own version of this hazardous material. (Don’t laugh, I live in California, one of the “chemicals” on our controlled materials list is deionized water)

First find a coffee cup sized beverage container and label it “Leak Detection Fluid”. Put in about a tablespoon of liquid hand soap, dishwashing liquid, or any other liquid detergent. Fill the rest of the cup with dihydrogen monoxide (H2O). Mix well. Apply the mixture to fittings suspected of leaking. If you see lots of bubbles forming you’ve got at least one of the culprits. Repeat as needed to eliminate leaks. If you want to get fancy use a spray bottle for ease of application.

We use this mixture regularly where I work for finding leaks in molds and related pressurized plumbing. And we always label it just to be safe.

Chris Husmann, PE
Over-regulated Engineer
Team 330 the Beach’Bots

Posted by Patrick Dingle at 2/6/2001 8:26 AM EST

Other on team #639, Red B^2, from Ithaca High School and Cornell University.

In Reply to: Dr Chris’ Magic Leak Detector fluid
Posted by ChrisH on 2/6/2001 12:12 AM EST:

I like that method :wink: May I suggest doing this not around electronics?

Anyways, to answer the original question, our team is using pneumatics. We were originally going to use 5 cylinders, then we cut the number to zero. Now we are using two 12" big cylinders.

We have also had some trouble with leaking and we have not yet taken the time to find the leak.

Patrick

: : Something seems wrong. Our table top set up (a.k.a.
: : “the rats nest”) doesn’t leak that fast.

: : Check all your fittings for leaks.

: : Joe J.

: Our table top set up didn’t leak at all, at least not noticably. First I’d run all of your tube ends through the fancy little tube cutter they gave you in the kit. Make sure the tube is in the bottom of the “V” before cutting it.

: If this doesn’t stop the leak(s), use some of my magic leak detector fluid. I’d sell you some for big $$ but I don’t have time to go through all of the environmental paperwork to be able to market it. So I’ll give you the recipe and you can make your own version of this hazardous material. (Don’t laugh, I live in California, one of the “chemicals” on our controlled materials list is deionized water)

: First find a coffee cup sized beverage container and label it “Leak Detection Fluid”. Put in about a tablespoon of liquid hand soap, dishwashing liquid, or any other liquid detergent. Fill the rest of the cup with dihydrogen monoxide (H2O). Mix well. Apply the mixture to fittings suspected of leaking. If you see lots of bubbles forming you’ve got at least one of the culprits. Repeat as needed to eliminate leaks. If you want to get fancy use a spray bottle for ease of application.

: We use this mixture regularly where I work for finding leaks in molds and related pressurized plumbing. And we always label it just to be safe.

: Chris Husmann, PE
: Over-regulated Engineer
: Team 330 the Beach’Bots

Posted by Joe at 2/6/2001 7:54 PM EST

Student on team #506 from St. Anthony’s HS.

In Reply to: Dr Chris’ Magic Leak Detector fluid
Posted by ChrisH on 2/6/2001 12:12 AM EST:

Our team is a first year team so everything we do we try to make extreemly simple. We found that if we took the following steps we eliminated most leaks.

1)connect as few items as possible and slowly add each time through (pump with 1 tank, pump with 2 tanks, etc.)
2) pressurize system up to 100+ psi.
3)Then shut off everything and make sure the room is totally silent.
4) have people on each side of the neumatics listen. You can hear any significant leaks and there easy to pinpoint by simply placing your finger near the connection and listening for a change in sound.
5) fix leaky connections starting clossest to the pump and moving away. Repressurizing after every 1-3 fixes.

This of course assumes you can get your pump to go up to these pressures. If you can’t hit this high of a pressure then going through this process may also find where you’re loosing it all. We orriginally had the problem of maxing at 30-40psi. When we did this we noticed that there was a spot that had come disconnected just enough to lose almost all our pressure but still ‘looked’ connected.

Posted by Ken Leung at 2/6/2001 1:17 AM EST

Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M. Gunn Senior High School.

In Reply to: Re: IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS
Posted by Kai Zhao on 2/5/2001 6:57 PM EST:

One little advice I can give you is to start the checking procedure simple. You never ever want to hook up everything and check all of them at once for leaks. It will only confuse you even more.

So, first just test out the pump with the tank and the pressure limit switch, and make sure the tank is airtight. See if any part of the tank is leaking.

Then put in the SMC pressure regulator and a single solenoid with an actuator and see if that create any more leaks. I am not too familiar with the pneumatics therefore I don’t know if there are anyways to just put in SMC pressure regulator without attaching solenoids.

But anyways, just test one part at a time, then add more components as you go on. Make sure you try out different connection that you are going to use.

I am sure this way somewhere along the line you are going to notice when you add some part the leak start.

At kickoff I’ve seen the pneumatics setup, and when we turn the pump there wasn’t any noticeable leaks, so I am pretty sure you might have connection problem or defected parts.

Contact the manufacturer or look up the web sites if there are any more problems.

Posted by Chris Orimoto at 2/6/2001 11:56 AM EST

Student on team #368, Kika Mana, from McKinley High School and Nasa Ames/Hawaiian Electric/Weinberg Foundation.

In Reply to: IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS
Posted by Rimple Bhakta on 2/5/2001 3:48 PM EST:

I think others mentioned this, but the pneumatic kit put together for us this year is VERY good. Not just good, but VERY good.

Yes, the pump weighs a lot, and you can leave it on all the time, but you don’t have to be running it. The limit switch can be programmed to turn off the pump at 120 psi, which would mean that it would only be “charging” the air tanks whenever you fire off the piston/solenoid, etc.

I forsee a great many teams using the pneumatic system this year. Does this mean that you’ll see US using it? Well, we may, or may not (totally behind schedule on robot building). But you will all know before Silicon Valley Regional.

Chris, #368

Posted by Tom at 2/6/2001 5:27 PM EST

Student on team #25, Raider Robotix, from North Brunswick Township High School and Bristol Myers-Squib.

In Reply to: IS ANYONE USING PNUEMATICS
Posted by Rimple Bhakta on 2/5/2001 3:48 PM EST:

: hello once again…
: is anyone taking advantage of then pnuematics system
: …?

Nope, Raider Robotix is still using the old fasioned way…electronics and motors!