Posted by Chris Hardman at 03/12/2001 5:53 PM EST
Student on team #111, WILDSTANG, from Rolling Meadows and Wheeling High schools and motorola.
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Mike Soukup on 03/12/2001 5:03 PM EST:
: 12 small balls
: Mike
sorry mike
Posted by Lloyd Burns at 03/13/2001 7:20 AM EST
Engineer on team #188, Woburn Robotics, from Woburn Collegiate and TorDistSchoolBrd, ScotiaBank. OntPwrGen, Enbridge.
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Chris Hardman on 03/12/2001 4:14 PM EST:
Chris -
. #71 didn’t win WMR in just ONE balance - they did it by doing it quickly and accurately, every time they tried it ! And they tried it a lot (elims and finals). We were all cheered each of the several times we were told that they had just scored record (for 2001) high scores, and they just refined the strategy, and broke their own record again.
. The match you cite was the icing on the cake - the alliance sacrificed a few balls to gain a time multiplier (a sophisticated strategy), and came out on top.
. On anther subject, I noticed at WMR that teams not only have to do their jobs well, but for the last 'bot home, like #71 and #111, the allies must get out of the way of, even move big balls to make way for, the balancer or rampbot in the end zone.
...
: no balancing two goals is not difficult at all. during the elims it sometimes can be due to teams not really living up to there sayings. Team #71 beatty hammond won WMR with having two goals balanced 11 small balls and one big ball and had all the robots in the endzone with 1:08 left on the clock, all from off the bridge. It’s a lot easier to balance if you have a good rampbot (ie: wildstang). But balancing two goals was quite common in WMR. it will take a lot more than 300 pts to win nationals, and possibly regionals. Just my thoughts
:
: Chris Hardman
Posted by Paul Copioli at 03/12/2001 4:16 PM EST
Engineer on team #217, Team Macomb - Royal Fusion, from Utica Schools, Fraser Schools, Warren Cons. School and Ford Motor Company.
In Reply to: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Thomas Grupp on 03/12/2001 3:51 PM EST:
To shortly answer your question… No, balancing 2 goals is not that hard.
Now, we get into more depth. 1st, We were at the Western Michigan Regional where there were many good teams. There were several high scores where teams got 300, 400, even 500 points; but there were 3 times as many matches were teams got 30, 40, 50 points. With a lot of low scores because of the inability to balance, one or two high scores bring your average up considerably.
Lastly, everyone is discussing the bridge being sticky: This helps in almost all instances!!! Friction helps keep equilibrium.
My thoughts
-Paul
: I have read alot of these posting and have seen 2 regionals broadcasted. Maybe my opinion will change once we, Team 378 The Circuit Stompers!!, attend the Great lakes regional.
: But during our practice time we had with our robot “Louie The Low Rider”, Yes we can limbo, we grabed both goals and balanced on the ramp in 40 seconds. That means there would be 1 min and 20 sec left over. If the other 3 robots just got in the end zone your looking at a minimum of 300 points.
: Correct me if Im wrong but at the Virginia regional I did not see two goals balanced at all. From the scores from the western michigan regional it seems that robots there were capable of doing the dual balance.
: I would like to hear from anybody and everbody about this. I would just like to know if what I saw our robot do at practice is repeatable, on a consistance basis? Or am I living in a dream world?
Posted by Rob Gordon at 03/12/2001 5:00 PM EST
Engineer on team #69, H.Y.P.E.R., from Quincy Public Schools and The Gillette Co…
In Reply to: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Thomas Grupp on 03/12/2001 3:51 PM EST:
Balancing the goal is real easy if someone helps you by stabilizing it with their bot. The HYPER 'bot, team 69, has designed in this feature and used it in the finals of the UTC regional to score over 500 points (3 times!!!) and help the alliance take home the championship.
Beware, however, some robots do not have a taper to their stabilizing area, and if the ramp is not balanced, when they pull out, you may end up on the floor. Fortunately, the HYPER 'bot’s ramp shape and incredible power eliminates this problem by letting them wedge in again, if necessary.
The other way to get 2 goals up there easy is to use a rampbot, like the amazing team HYPER 'bot. One pulls one of the goals up the bridge, leaving it in the middle and driving down the HYPER 'bot. Then another robot pushes a goal up the HYPER 'bot against the first goal. This strategy leaves 2 goals balanced very quickly, (with as many balls as possible!) and all four bots free to run to the endzone. (Can anyone say 700 points???)
Sorry for the sales pitch, but what can I say, I love our 'bot!
Posted by Chris Hardman at 03/12/2001 5:56 PM EST
Student on team #111, WILDSTANG, from Rolling Meadows and Wheeling High schools and motorola.
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Rob Gordon on 03/12/2001 5:00 PM EST:
: Balancing the goal is real easy if someone helps you by stabilizing it with their bot. The HYPER 'bot, team 69, has designed in this feature and used it in the finals of the UTC regional to score over 500 points (3 times!!!) and help the alliance take home the championship.
: Beware, however, some robots do not have a taper to their stabilizing area, and if the ramp is not balanced, when they pull out, you may end up on the floor. Fortunately, the HYPER 'bot’s ramp shape and incredible power eliminates this problem by letting them wedge in again, if necessary.
: The other way to get 2 goals up there easy is to use a rampbot, like the amazing team HYPER 'bot. One pulls one of the goals up the bridge, leaving it in the middle and driving down the HYPER 'bot. Then another robot pushes a goal up the HYPER 'bot against the first goal. This strategy leaves 2 goals balanced very quickly, (with as many balls as possible!) and all four bots free to run to the endzone. (Can anyone say 700 points???)
: Sorry for the sales pitch, but what can I say, I love our 'bot!
ahhh but does your bot have auto balance? =)
chris hardman
Posted by Rob Gordon at 03/12/2001 6:35 PM EST
Engineer on team #69, H.Y.P.E.R., from Quincy Public Schools and The Gillette Co…
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Chris Hardman on 03/12/2001 5:56 PM EST:
: ahhh but does your bot have auto balance? =)
: chris hardman
We have never needed it, our drivers can usually do it on the first try, or at least within a few seconds. However, we can only balance one by ourselves 
-Rob G
Posted by Andy Baker at 03/13/2001 12:34 AM EST
Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Chris Hardman on 03/12/2001 5:56 PM EST:
We proved to everyone at W. Michigan that auto-balancing can be done. It is a beatiful thing.
BUT, we had a little problem with grabbing the goals. One stab, two stabs, three stabs… man, that was painful to watch.
The TechnoKats have spent the last two days re-doing the goal grabbers… we may as well call them goal stabbers. Needless to say, they work very well now.
My main point is… get the goals first, and get them quickly. This was an area that we took for granted, and it bit us in the hiney during the semis.
Don’t make the mistake we did: “the drivers can get better at this!”. Make the design error proof… just like production machines are made. The less chance for error, the more quality products you will produce. I this case, the more quality 1:00 rounds you will complete.
Andy B.
Posted by Carolyn Duncan at 03/14/2001 6:42 PM EST
Student on team #495, The Pack, from Jamestown High School and VBEP/Raytheon/Saic.
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Rob Gordon on 03/12/2001 5:00 PM EST:
Your bot sounds great! 495 can do something like that. We have an arm that balances the bridge without us being on it in less than 10 seconds. That leaves plenty of time to get other things done else where on the field.
Posted by Mark Pierce at 03/12/2001 7:49 PM EST
Other on team #288, RoboDAWGS, from Grandville High School and X-Rite, Delphi, and others.
In Reply to: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Thomas Grupp on 03/12/2001 3:51 PM EST:
The bridge moved slightly off the 4X6 a few times at West Michigan. This usually occured after a fast traverse of the bridge left it bouncing. The result was that it’s impossible to balance the bridge unless you can manage to push or pull it into place.
I got the impression that this is nearly impossible to detect from the player station, but the announcer did say the bridge was no longer centered. I don’t know if it’s possible to hear his comments when you’re driving, but listen up if you’re having problems and try a different approach.
Posted by Rich Reynolds at 03/12/2001 7:59 PM EST
Student on team #237, Sie-H20-Bots, from Watertown High School and Eastern Awning, Siemon Co…
In Reply to: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Thomas Grupp on 03/12/2001 3:51 PM EST:
hey tom, im the driver for team 237 and with our new design balancing isnt too hard. we attended the new england regionals and the ramp seemed to balance in like 5 positions, the 3 normal, and then 2 in between up and down. our ramp, that we made, which isnt perfect, is hard to balance, but is very possible with 2 goals, so dont fret! -rich 237
Posted by PAUL GIANNOSA at 03/12/2001 9:52 PM EST
Engineer on team #27, TEAM RUSH, from OSMTECH and TEXTRON AUTOMOTIVE CO…
In Reply to: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Thomas Grupp on 03/12/2001 3:51 PM EST:
: I have read alot of these posting and have seen 2 regionals broadcasted. Maybe my opinion will change once we, Team 378 The Circuit Stompers!!, attend the Great lakes regional.
: But during our practice time we had with our robot “Louie The Low Rider”, Yes we can limbo, we grabed both goals and balanced on the ramp in 40 seconds. That means there would be 1 min and 20 sec left over. If the other 3 robots just got in the end zone your looking at a minimum of 300 points.
: Correct me if Im wrong but at the Virginia regional I did not see two goals balanced at all. From the scores from the western michigan regional it seems that robots there were capable of doing the dual balance.
: I would like to hear from anybody and everbody about this. I would just like to know if what I saw our robot do at practice is repeatable, on a consistance basis? Or am I living in a dream world?
Our driver for Team Rush balanced 2 goals (one full one m t and with one big ball on top) about 95% of the time at the New England regionals. We did this consistantly enough to qualify as the #2 seed at the regionals. Unfortunatly Gale force winds blew away our chances for a victory in the finals. Consistancy is the name of the game. Pick a job and do it well. For the Great lakes regional we have changed our strategy and robot to fit the strategy a little. We obviously need to score more than 360 points(our best of the UTC weekend) considering #71 has rasied the anty a little. PMGRACER
Posted by Carolyn Duncan at 03/14/2001 6:37 PM EST
Student on team #495, The Pack, from Jamestown High School and VBEP/Raytheon/Saic.
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by PAUL GIANNOSA on 03/12/2001 9:52 PM EST:
Our team, 495, balanced the bridge with 2 goals and another robot without being on the bridge in practice. Unfortunately, we were unable to do so in a match because we were not given the opportunity. Delphi E.L.I.T.E. was the robot holding the 2 goals on the bridge. We balanced in less than 10 seconds!!! Is that fast enough for the time multiplier seekers?
Posted by Anton Abaya at 03/12/2001 11:16 PM EST
Coach on team #419, Rambots, from UMass Boston / BC High and If only we had free donuts…
In Reply to: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Thomas Grupp on 03/12/2001 3:51 PM EST:
but even the best out there with gyros and everything still wanted a wedge…
seek the rambot…your perfect wedge. (cough cough nick)
=anton=
Posted by Lewis Sussman at 03/13/2001 9:54 AM EST
Coach on team #95, Lebanon Robotics Team, from Lebanon NH HS, Hanover NH HS, Hartford VT HS and CRREL/CREARE.
In Reply to: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Thomas Grupp on 03/12/2001 3:51 PM EST:
We can balance two goals. All of the weight of the goals is transferred onto our drive wheels so traction and maneuvering is not a problem - imagine 300 lbs of weight on six wheel drive!! Since we lift the goals up the casters don’t present a problem either.
Posted by Chris Hibner at 03/13/2001 1:43 PM EST
Coach on team #308, Walled Lake Monster, from Walled Lake Schools and TRW Automotive Electronics.
In Reply to: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Thomas Grupp on 03/12/2001 3:51 PM EST:
For our team, balancing the goals isn’t really difficult. We’ve only dumped the goals once (in 20 attempts between practice and matches) and we do it very fast. However, we found it more difficult to get the OPPORTUNITY to balance.
Let me explain that a little. During the West Michigan Regional, we had 9 matches and we were the designated goal balancer in 8 of those 9 matches (we co-balanced with another team in the other match). Out of those 8 matches, we got only 3 opportunities to balance the goals. In the other 5 matches, a robot flipped over while crossing the bridge, either dislodging the bridge from the pivot or blocking the bridge altogether.
In the future, we’ll probably be a little more proactive about being sure that a robot can successfully cross the bridge. I think we took it for granted that there would be very little issue doing this task.
Posted by Carolyn Duncan at 03/14/2001 3:48 PM EST
Student on team #495, The Pack, from Jamestown High School and VBEP/Raytheon/Saic.
In Reply to: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Thomas Grupp on 03/12/2001 3:51 PM EST:
Actually you could be in a dream. Our team, 495, can balance the bridge with a robot and 2 goals on it with out being on the bridge!!! All we need is for a team to move the 2 goals onto the bridge!!!
Posted by Jason Flanagan at 03/14/2001 5:50 PM EST
Student on team #250, Dynamos, from Shenendehowa HSE and General Electric, Verizon, .
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Carolyn Duncan on 03/14/2001 3:48 PM EST:
how does your robot balance the bridge? are you just a shock absorber or what?
Posted by Carolyn Duncan at 03/14/2001 6:30 PM EST
Student on team #495, The Pack, from Jamestown High School and VBEP/Raytheon/Saic.
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Jason Flanagan on 03/14/2001 5:50 PM EST:
Our robot has an arm which lifts and stops the bridge from comming up to far. The robot on the bridge needs to help a little by moving center. www.erols.com/devonr/regional has pix of us and robot at VCU regionals.
Posted by Jason Flanagan at 03/14/2001 5:50 PM EST
Student on team #250, Dynamos, from Shenendehowa HSE and General Electric, Verizon, .
In Reply to: Re: Is Balancing 2 Goals That Difficult???
Posted by Carolyn Duncan on 03/14/2001 3:48 PM EST:
how does your robot balance the bridge? are you just a shock absorber or what?