Is it just me or this a total Love In?

FIRST General Forum
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Posted by Mike Sklar at 1/10/2001 8:38 PM EST

Engineer on team #21, ComBBAT , from Astronaut H.S. and Titusville H.S. and Brevard Community College and Boeing Company and NASA-KSC.

Is this years game a great social experiment gone awry or what. Is it just me or does everyone feel this is one great big love in. If we are going to change the culture of America we need to understand what it is. We as human species, by design are violent competitive beings, thus our survival to date as a species.

The reason football, baseball, hockey and basketball players are paid millions per year is not due to some policy. We as humans are thoroughly entertained and have an extreme emotional response to dramatic, tough competition. And we pay for it. Why should FIRST be any different. This year there is no defense, no drama. Leads don’t change, teams don’t come charging from behind with a few seconds to go to win. In essence there is little drama. This will do nothing to capture the attention of non-first ite’s. And as usual we will have 95% of the spectators actually be connected to FIRST teams. If want to change we need dramatic competition that appeals to human beings.

A philosophical friend of mine and child of the 70’s, asked me about the game this year and what I thought. I explained it was a great big love in with no real face to face competition. His response: “Damn Hippies”.

Comments please

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Posted by Matt Leese at 1/10/2001 9:17 PM EST

Other on team #73 from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Rochester Institute of Technology.

In Reply to: Is it just me or this a total Love In?
Posted by Mike Sklar on 1/10/2001 8:38 PM EST:

Given the fact that we’ve been discussing the pro’s and con’s of the game since it was announced, I would like everyone to agree to not bring it up again until after competition begins. Why? Because no one really has any idea how it will be at regionals or nationals. Half the people here are attacking the game and the other half are defending it. For those of you who want more action, look right here. But seriously, can we please cut it out? In all honesty this looks a lot worse for the FIRST community then a supposedly “non-interesting game” ever will. Please everyone at least wait and find out.

Matt who’s incredibly tired of the whole discussion

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Posted by Andy Baker at 1/10/2001 9:50 PM EST

Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

In Reply to: Please wait and find out
Posted by Matt Leese on 1/10/2001 9:17 PM EST:

Matt,

Well put. You are wise beyond your years. Maybe we should call you Mr. Leese!

Andy B.

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Posted by Joe Johnson at 1/10/2001 10:31 PM EST

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

In Reply to: Well said
Posted by Andy Baker on 1/10/2001 9:50 PM EST:

I am slowly coming to believe that all the folks who
are worried about a boring finals are wrong.

I admit that I was worried, but I am not any longer.

My reasoning springs from 2 thoughts.

First, today we had our team break up into 4 teams,
each “designed” a robot and we all played the game with
those robots (or rather simulated playing the game).

The curious thing was that we kept coming up with ways
of scoring more points, each with progressively more
risk, but with a higher reward.

I believe that this will lead to an EXTREMELY exciting
finals because
the alliances are going to be taking more and more risk in
their efforts to try to out do the other alliance.

Second, TIME is a very important twist. The fact that
teams that can shave off a few seconds get rewarded
will put a very high pressure on the drivers and robots.

I am slowly coming to weave a picture in my head of
these two factors combining to make a very exciting
finals. Teams will be taking more risks to get more
reward and trying to do it in faster times.

I am coming to the opinion that this,
together with the teeter totter, will make for
a lot of action AND uncertainty in the finals.

Action and uncertainty are the two main elements of the
excitement of sports.

Fasten your seatbelts, we are in for a bumpy ride!

Joe J.

P.S. The deeper we get into this game, the more clever
Dean and Woodie seem. The balances are very finely
tuned (no pun intended).

As an engineering challenge,
I don’t think we have met this games equal as an
exercise in running around in circles…

…maybe this
is the right way, no, maybe it’s that way, or is it
this third way over there, oh yeah, let’s not forget
about that other possibility over under the
carpet.

By accident or design, it is well done.

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Posted by Matt Leese at 1/10/2001 10:35 PM EST

Other on team #73, Tigerbolt, from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Rochester Institute of Technology.

In Reply to: What I am coming be believe… …slowly
Posted by Joe Johnson on 1/10/2001 10:31 PM EST:

Grrr…you didn’t listen too well do you. :wink: Seriously, I’m asking for ALL discussion to stop. It’s bugging me and I’m sure everyone else too.

Matt

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Posted by Joe Johnson at 1/10/2001 10:54 PM EST

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

In Reply to: Re: What I am coming be believe… …slowly
Posted by Matt Leese on 1/10/2001 10:35 PM EST:

It is an important discussion. You need not be
involved in you are upset by it.

Joe J.

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Posted by Matt Leese at 1/10/2001 11:32 PM EST

Other on team #73, Tigerbolt, from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Rochester Institute of Technology.

In Reply to: Don’t read if you don’t want to…
Posted by Joe Johnson on 1/10/2001 10:54 PM EST:

Not upset, just annoyed. And I really don’t think it’s important because it’s not going anywhere. The same positions are just rehashed over and over. No one’s mind is being changed and I think it’s probably just going to get people annoyed with each other (I already start to see it happen). That’s why I’d like to call an end to it. In the long discussing this will just cause more problems then it’s ever worth. I don’t think it’s just an issue of not reading it but instead of stopping it. Can I actually make anyone not talk about it? Of course not. However, I’m asking everyone to stop.

Matt, enough is enough

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Posted by Mike Aubry at 1/10/2001 11:57 PM EST

Engineer on team #47, Chiefs, from Pontiac Central and Delphi .

In Reply to: Let it go
Posted by Matt Leese on 1/10/2001 11:32 PM EST:

Seems like every year we, the ChiefDelphi webpage hosts must remind everyone “What these forums are about …” Every year someone gets upset at someone or many due to a misunderstanding or someone having a differing opinion. Once again, let me remind all - that we welcome everyones comments, we rarely censure comments (unless we have too), and we advocate that this forum be used to share comments, opinions, and discuss a wide variety of topics. The Rumor Mill, is for the more fun, did ya hear the one about … stuff, the Discussion forum is for sharing ideas, comments, etc. I do not feel you or anyone else has the right to advocate ending any discussion at ALL, if you are annoyed by the discussion - don’t read it, ignore it, post else where … Please, lets all remember that these forums have been created for “Communicating” Good or Bad - ALL comments are welcome - even if we don’t agree or condone the ideas of others, we accept the fact that people have a right to put them out there for ALL to read. Thanks, Matt - your comments are welcome on ALL subjects and SO is everyone elses. Please, keep this in mind.

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Posted by Ken Leung at 1/11/2001 2:56 AM EST

Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M. Gunn Senior High School.

In Reply to: What this forum is about …
Posted by Mike Aubry on 1/10/2001 11:57 PM EST:

How about doing it in another section. I mean, this is the general section where the general discussion of things like the rules or specifics of the game should be. I agree with Matt because I’ve seen too many discussion of how the game should be, and it’s taking too much space in this section. Can someone move all the speculation of the game to another section? mabye Rumor Mill is more appropiate, but maybe another section like “speculation of game” or “imagination land”.

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Posted by Matt Leese at 1/11/2001 7:20 AM EST

Other on team #73, Tigerbolt, from Edison Technical HS and Alstom & Rochester Institute of Technology.

In Reply to: What this forum is about …
Posted by Mike Aubry on 1/10/2001 11:57 PM EST:

I’m getting to feel about this discussion as I did the last one but I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m trying to say about the discussion. Most other discussions I’ve seen here are either harmless or helpful, but the discussion over whether the game is good or not is devisisve and will lead to problems between people (basically I’m saying people will get annoyed/angry with each other). That is definately a Bad Thing ™. The other reason this is bad as follows: Imagine you’re new to FIRST and you see the handy web page that FIRST gave out and come here and check it out. You see lots of people arguing over whether or not the game is good. First of all, you’re not going to think of CD as a good resource. Second of all, you’re not going to get a good idea of what the FIRST community is. That’s why I want it to end. And with that, I’m going to be permanently ignoring everything to do with whether or not the game is good or bad or whether the discussion should be ended. I hope everyone else will do the same but I sincerely doubt it. And I’m not trying to force or coerce them into stoping, I’m just asking them that they do stop for the benefit of everyone else.

Matt

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Posted by nick237 at 1/11/2001 10:10 PM EST

Engineer on team #237, sie h2o bots, from Watertown high school ct and sieman co.

In Reply to: Re: What I am coming be believe… …slowly
Posted by Matt Leese on 1/10/2001 10:35 PM EST:

Matt. Your wrong, you do not speak for me and im sure many feel disapointed by this years game plan.
Your Grrrr`s are your opinion but we have ours, by expressing them we hope to let FIRST know through this media that “we” the displeased are unhappy.
Next year I hope Dean will remember many peoples displeasure at the drastic change in the challenge that we are all used to.
This year I have invited my Sister and her Daughter to visit America for the Nationals, they are comming from England and the cost is high.
I wanted them to see and feel the excitement that we saw last year and how the crowd would go wild at each game. I secretly hoped that my niece would return to England and get her school interested to enter a team for 2002 but seing this years challenge I dont see this happening.
I personaly will be out of pocket about $10,000 for this year and I dont see any excitement for my investment. I know FIRST is not about money but you know what…
IT IS.
How much $$$$ will this years game cost you out of pocket Matt.
Your bugged and so are we…
nick237

:Grrr…you didn’t listen too well do you. :wink: Seriously, I’m asking for ALL discussion to stop. It’s bugging me and I’m sure everyone else too.

: Matt

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Posted by Raul at 1/10/2001 10:40 PM EST

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

In Reply to: What I am coming be believe… …slowly
Posted by Joe Johnson on 1/10/2001 10:31 PM EST:

Yes, I agree. I am well past the point of critizing this game and am consumed by all the variables.

Joe is right about the finals. It will be like a high jump, pole vault or weight lifting finals. In those sports the person gets a safe high score the first round and then adds difficulty (risk) to “raise the bar” on subsequent rounds. If they really feel confident they go for a personal best.

Raul

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