It seems like shooting into the trap was ruled out as an option early on by most teams. Has seeing multiple teams develop working shooter prototypes for the trap change peoples minds?
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Not really, iirc none of them had the flap system in place, so while they can shoot into it, that’s without the flap, which I don’t think will be moved for long enough for the note to go in, if it doesn’t bounce off.
iirc none of them had the flap system in place
This is not correct.
I am still very unsure of the viability of shooting into the trap from the floor. I believe there is a much more reliable method, but it likely requires a significant architecture choice.
I’ll be interested to see how other teams tackle the problem as the season progresses and we finally get to see some teams try to do the floor shot on the real field.
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Celt-X was also running a working trap shooter with the flap.
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I’m going to throw another fun one in here…
If you look at the angle required for this shot and the height of the chain… it sags in the middle… there is not much clearance… but there is some. If the chain were 5" higher, this might not work.
The more I keep thinking about that, the more I keep thinking this might have been intentional… but I truly cannot say with any certainty. Who knows what chaos lurks in the minds of the GDC:
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Yeah, the flap is the major variable here, not so much the angle. With how compliant this game piece is, I’d be shocked if someone developed a shooter that caused the game piece to both open the trap door AND go completely into the into the trap.
It’s worth noting that the note in this video would NOT count as scored since it doesn’t go completely in, and I’m also not convinced that mock-up is an accurate representation of the trap, compared to the official CAD
EDIT: Disregard this, apparently I was looking at the video from 3255 linked in that post but not the other videos in the post itself. Not sure why it got quoted the way it did. The videos after that are a bit more convincing though I think I still have to see it for myself on a regulation (polycarbonate) trap assembly to be fully convinced.
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It seems to me like shooting into the trap could be a good hail-mary play for teams to attempt toward the end of the match if it’s a blowout (scoring in the speaker can’t change the outcome) and the alliance is looking for a way to get that ensemble RP.
I’m not sure what video you’re watching but those notes went all the way in.
The 900 flap looks exactly like the real one with the weights and all…
They even mention in the post they made it using the real field model as a guide.
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Interesting, I was under the impression the trap was sprung shut, but it doesn’t seem to be the case.
In which case it may be viable, still not sure on reliability and clearances. However if one can be climbed and then shoot that may be.more viable.
Not springs per say, but rather well placed counterweights and gravity that cause the trap door to want to stay closed when not acted upon by an external force.
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If you can hit just 50% of traps shot you could quickly pick up missed notes and try it again.
The danger is the missed shot falls in your robot.
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Counterweights that have a very minimal “righting moment” (to steal a term from naval engineering.)… this is either a miss or highly intentional by the GDC.
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Given the way it was presented in the kickoff videos, I’m inclined to think it was a miss.
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I am one of the mentors from 3255. I was there helping when we initially made the video of us shooting into the trap. I just want to clarify a couple things. First of all, when the students said they wanted to try shooting into the trap, I thought it was dumb and I told them I would buy them In-N-Out if they made it in. So now apparently I’m the dumb one and I owe them In-N-Out… Anyways, that video was in no way supposed to be “hey look this is super easy. you should design your robot around it” and more of a “Hey, look what we did!” Consistency and reliability is yet to be really tested. We tried that for about half an hour and finally found a position and shooting speed that seemed relatively repeatable. We are aware the trap isnt 100% accurate to the real field. Our flap is HDPE, not polycarbonate. Our weights arent 100% exactly the same as the official field. The team elements dont allow the game piece to fall all the way through like the real field. These are all elements that we are aware of, but just wanted to do a sanity check to see if it was even possible. If we decide to pursue this further, we will make a trap that is more accurate to the official field and spend more time tuning and getting it more consistent with something closer to the real field
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Yeah, disregard my earlier post, apparently I was looking at the video from another team linked in that post but not the ones in the post itself. Not sure why it got quoted the way it did. The videos after that are a bit more convincing though I think I still have to see it for myself on a regulation (polycarbonate) trap assembly to be fully convinced.
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I’m on team build a trap mechanism anyway and if my shooter can also do trap and it turns out to be reliable on a real field, cool.
Btw, long team names like this one are hard to put on shirts.
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We’ve certainly been inspired by the Zebracorns’ example. Our team was thinking that we’d maybe come back and deal with the Trap later through some other mechanism as an add-on, but now we’re going to be testing our shooter to see if we can make the shoot-from-the-ground approach work. Given that our shooter has a variable angle and can go as steep as the Zebracorns’ prototype, I think we can do it too.
Well, in 2010 the GDC did make Breakaway to where a chokehold strategy was technically possible (ball cyclers like 469 and 51)… and many, many teams missed it and wrote it off as “impossible”. The team I was student on that year certainly did. IIRC, via a team update or Q&A they actually made such a strategy explicitly legal, confirming it more than a mere oversight but rather an intended ultimate solution “begging” to be realized. Perhaps the TRAP is another of these cases?
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