Is shooting low pointless

Shooting low will be valuable, especially during qualification matches in order to get that RP. Even during DCMP events and in divisions, I expect that most playoff alliances will have a low shooting robot.

I can’t answer for your team though. It depends on your resources and time.

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If you make a high-goal specific shooter and something breaks, can you sill score low? That is an important consideration. We planned from the beginning to make our floor intake be able to spit balls into the low goal. Low goal as a backup is better than no goals at all.

do you think control pannel will have any relevance in elimination matches

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A team that is asking this question isn’t likely a team that has a solid intake/handoff/indexer/handoff/shooter that is both fast and reliable. They’re going to spend the season working on either low goal or outer/inner.

If you come at it from that perspective, it’s no longer “if you’re capable.” They’re learning what they’re capable of as they go. For teams like this, I’d stress balls/second versus points/ball. Getting 5 balls in the outer goal in a game won’t get anyone’s attention like 15-20 balls in the lower.

It’s very likely the difference is going to be astronomical between the two tasks.

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30 points. That’s the same as 2 cycles of inner goals. I’d suspect you’ll see the control panel getting a great deal of use in elims unless cycle times are incredibly fast.

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Echoing the above: By our estimation and models based on years past, our high-goal shooter must hit over 60% with a shot time of about 2 seconds to be worth it. If we don’t have that performance level a few weeks out from Palmetto, we’ll likely rip ours off and dump low too.

Put another way: Is your high goal shooter going to put up more points than an Everybot?

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2 seconds per ball, or 2 seconds per 5 balls?

If you’re a team debating whether to score low or high, then you should probably score low and do it as fast as possible. If you can dump balls into the low goal as fast as a high level team can score up high, then you should do that. It’s a major benefit for the sure-to-be elusive Stage 3 RP, and it’s a major benefit towards causing the the “overflow” feedback loop that people have been talking about.

My take though, is that a strong, consistent climber is more important than a low goal dumping mechanism.

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Ditto, reliable solo climbing is the most important scoring objective. if high scoring looks hard, score low.

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What I took away from this video is:

  • Out of 54 balls scored, 35 were by everybot in the low goal (35 points)
  • Everybot is able to score low very quickly. The week 6 robot took awhile to get lined up sometimes and longer to get all the balls from hopper to shooter
  • I would say the Week 6 robot is pretty equivalent to the “average” high scoring robot you might see.

Will there be high level teams scoring faster than everybot because it can shoot without having to go right up next to the port? Absolutely! But if you’re not confident in your ability to get the balls from your intake to your high goal shooter, I think it’d be much much better to do a quick, low goal robot. With the importance noted above that a solo climb is even more important.

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When is your competitions? If you have earlier competitions, I’d stick with low and only low. If you have late competitions then I see no reason for you not to choose to shoot high.

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I’ll say that our team is going low and fast. We decided on this strategy from the outset, in order to maximize the number of PCs we could score and aim for the extra rank point. While this is less important during playoffs, it’s still a good strategy if you have a fast bot and can do a very rapid dump into the low goal. We should be able to drop five PCs into the low goal in less than a second of actual goal time (literally, run up, dump, and go.) It’s a completely protected scoring position since you’re in the goal triangle that will earn a defender a tech foul (and 15 extra points for you) if they contact you, so that’s an advantage over shooters unless they can fire from the trench where they can still potentially have their shots blocked by tall bots. It’s also likely to contribute to a flood strategy, putting a lot of PCs into the goal and forcing the opponents to put them right back on the field, which reduces the low bots cycle time even more. There are many good reasons to be a low goal specialist this year.

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and there was no defense being played against it.

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Low goal exclusive does not have the same advantage as Stronghold. Especially as more high goal shooters pair up in eliminations.

lmao you know youre gonna have to drive across the length of the field to get a new cycle of balls. It will not that easy to just pick them all up nearby and dump another round in the low goal lol. Plus no defense is being played on them. Lets not get to carried away with this video.

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When we ran our strategies, we found that a slower bot that shot high with 80% accuracy would score higher than a faster dump bot aiming for the low goal. In this case, only 19 balls were scored by the week 6 bot, but that accounted for a minimum of 38 points, compared to a lot more balls but only 35 points for everybot (ignoring autonomous).

The advantage of high numbers of balls for a lower score is in the ranking point if you can trigger both disk events, noting that you will loose a cycle each time to do the spin. In that example, two week 6 bots would only get 38 balls, so they wouldn’t trigger the RP condition, but the combination of a shooter + dumper did trigger it. So it seems like an interesting strategic decision to make.

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Assuming a 100% accuracy for low goal and 80% accuracy for high goal, getting to the 49 Power Cell threshold requires 10 cycles for the low robot and 13 for the high robot.
If the high robot gets 60% of its shots, that goes up to 17 cycles.

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I find that in quals, low goal is important for the RP. In playoffs, the high goal is more important because points. But accuracy is more important than anything.

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I 100% agree with that that’s not a good representation of a match. The HP in this situation is being awfully generous with ball return and no one is trying to hoard/shuttle balls to the other side of the field.

That said, I think it’s still important to note the overall throughput of the Everybot. And also the fact that it’s shooting from the target zone, which may be an easy spot to draw fouls from defense. If a well driven Everybot is able to take advantage of the trench run and target zone I think they’ll still score a fair bit.

And the overall throughput is important in playoffs. I see Everybot as a very viable 2nd pick type robot at champs to feed a very good clean up bot.

@bilby I think something I don’t see discuss is that yes the 49 balls is important in quals for the RP, but it also opens up the opportunity to score 30 extra points in playoffs. You don’t get bonus points in place of the RP. But ball throughput is still important.

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If we thought we could always get 80% of high goal shots in quickly, we would not consider a low goal only robot. But seriously, how many teams are capable of building that high goal robot, judging by the past performance of robots you’ve seen at competitions?

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