As stated in the title, If you can herd and remove balls but you cant hurdle will you be at a significant disadvantage?
Just looking for CD’s thoughts
matt
We’re banking on NO. There are only two trackballs per alliance; at least one robot will have to find something else to do, whether that be running laps, “rebounding” the hurdled trackballs and returning them to the hurdlers, or something else.
That probably depends on your lap times.
The way I see alliance pickings going this year, most alliances will consist of two hurdlers and one fast lap runner. If you can run laps faster than most other teams, then you probably have a good chance of being picked for eliminations. The fact that you can remove balls from the overpass is a plus.
If not, somebody better tell JVN in a hurry.
I think that there’s a place on any alliance for someone who can’t or choses not to hurdle. In a match like previously stated there are never more than 2 trackballs per alliance. Unless you’re going to be doing some all-star amazing passes between three hurdler someone’s going to need to either play defense or run laps.
Personally I think an alliance is going to need 2 decent hurdlers and one bot thats highly maneuverable and mildly powerful that can run laps and act as an annoyance to other teams. I think in some qualifying matches we’re going to see the weakest hurdler (should there be three) be out in this defensive/lap scoring position. Also my theory be true I think we’re going to see a lot of strong hurdlers pick another hurdler first and then a good lap runner second.
Also In this years game I like the fact that all you need is a working drivetrain to score. In the event of a catastrophic failure of all other scoring systems you may be saved by a working drivetrain. And tot hose of you who think that it can’t happen it can and it will. In NJ last year I played 2 out of three of my matches without pneumatics and one of those with nothing but a right and left drive motor.
There is certainly a place for gripperbot and racerbot. The ideal alliance this year is one shooterbot, one armbot, and then one agile gripperbot to reload the shooterbot. As long as the trackballs keep being fed into the shooterbot, the alliance could get upwards of 15 hurdles per match.
A fast lap runner will run into traffic with 5 other robots and/or up to 4 balls on the field. A ferrari in traffic is no faster than a big rig truck. extreme case That’s the disadvantage they will have.
Hurdlers will still be able to go around the track.
But the reverse scenarios cant happen.
IMO, that puts hurdlers at an advantage.
HOWEVER, there are levels of performance on how well teams can hurdle (speed and efficiency) which will affect outcome of matches.
During teleop period, the question will be, “Can a team hurdle at least once while a lapper runs around the track four times?”
Autonomous is the key.
I believe that the non-hurdlers will make the difference in the games.
Hurdlers will mostly cancel esch other out and recieve the most defense against them, thus it will be the ‘alternative scorers’ that will make or break alliances.
I’m not sure on this.
I think hurdlers will try and worry about grabbing their own ball and trying to hurdle, unless your talking at the end of matches.
Both teams that have alternative scorers can cancel each other out too.
If its 3 hurdlers vs a team of 2 with one alternative scorer, I can see your point. But in the playoffs, I dont think teams will do that knowing that only 2 balls in their alliance will only be available. In fact, I would rather have a robot that focuses on defense and not let teams put a ball up at the end instead of a lapper. A lapper will have a hard time stopping a robot from putting a ball on the overpass at the end, all else equal. That’s 12 points bonus equivalent to a lapper who has to do 6 laps just to tie that feat. Autonomous is the difference maker.
I believe a defensive herder (not a racer) could make a big difference in the game. Continuous contact between a Robot and Trackball are permissble herding. You are also allowed to herd your opposition’s trackballs. Robots may also push or react against any element of the arena. No where in the rules does it say you have to be moving to herd. So if a herding Robot hanging out just past the oppositions finish line can pin the opposition’s Trackball against the wall following their opponents hurdle, the best hurdler now has no Trackball to to hurdle with. Defensive Trackball management. You gotta love it.
True, but when we practiced, those dammn balls move like crazy a lot more than we originally thought (since they are relatively heavy and large).
Gripping/grabbing a ball will be tough too with traffic and a whole lot of robots on the field. That will waste just as much time as trying to do a hurdle.
I’m thinking three hurdlers.
When one hurdles there will be one waiting to get the ball for their attempt and one with the other ball racing around to hurdle.
An effective three team relay will be unstoppable.
Never thought about that. GOOD POINT!
I think 1 outstanding hurdler and 2 highspeed herders, to bring the trackballs around, will win this year.
It’ll be interesting to see the different playstyles and how they react.
Less than a week before BAE 
Well I guess we can all wait and see how matches play out during week 1 regionals. Too bad all of them are not NASA webcasted.
Most likely, the robots that do hurdle will either be highly ineffective or slow. I predict the majority of the points will be made in hybrid from going around the track.
It wouldn’t be hard to win with 3 good “hybrid” bots and a bunch of defense afterwards. But I’m sure that a very good hurdler will be in every winning alliance. I agree with waialua359, hybrid is where its at. Even though there’s rules on impeding, there’s still going to be a lot of traffic to contend with. Especially wherever the balls are.
To answer the question though, just running laps will get difficult in the inevitable traffic. Unless you’re totally committed to that, and very small, like 148.
We have had a few days of practice plus a few practice matches and from experience that i have gained it will be easy to herd a ball especially if you possess it.
Also forklift hurdlers will take up lots of time in there hurdling and they are genrally slower.
So i think it will be necessary to have at least one hurdler but you can get away with the other being an alternate scorer and a racer.
We should take a page out of 2006 and 07.
In 06, you could lose a match if you got blown out during autonomous. When matches were 40+ to 0 after autonomous, how could you possibly win (very little chance). It was not consistent because opponents could try and block you, messing things up. However, this year, no opponent is even in your area to try and block you. Thus, good autonomous bots will be more consistent, especially with the aid of the IR.
In 07, only 1 ringer at a time, and many teams claimed in practice, they could do 7-10 in a match by themselves and I saw it during the practice day (with no traffic and defense). Then during competition, no one got remotely close to averaging that by themselves and you seldom saw it done by an average alliance, because of…defense and traffic.
This year, 08, you have lots of points potential from autonomous and lots of chance for defense and traffic because only 2 balls will be available per alliance.
Conclusion: Autonomous is important. Defense is important. We will see lots of traffic, tipped-over bots, broken pieces on the field, and frustrated teams. exagerating a bit
My optimal alliance would have two good shooters and one racer.
In my opinion, arm bots will not be able to keep up with good shooters and the racer could race and of course mess around with the other teams trackballs.