If a robot did this to a trashcan would the judges considered it damaged and disqualify us?
The penalty is foul and disabled, not disqualify.
To me, you squashed an RC. If that type of damaged is easily pushed out, then I would let you continue playing with a squashed RC. If I know that that type of damage is permanent, or otherwise destructive, then I would call a foul.
IMHO deformation that can be quickly fixed between matches (pushed out in a few seconds) is not “damage” for purposes of G16-G.
Just a reminder, opinions expressed on these forums are not official. Also, This would be difficult to form into a Q&A-able question.
I would certainly try to find a way to reduce the force on whatever mechanism did that since, even if the first incident yields temporary damage, repeated squishing could increase the likelihood of permanent damage.
Q&A for sure. I wouldn’t want that happening myself. Adding hard stops could help to whatever is gripping that, or a special can grabber.
I agree with both the answer and the qualifications. In my mind, if the “repair” is simply to push the piece back into shape, it’s not really damage. CD is a great place for opinions, but the Q&A is the place for answers about rules.
Judges wouldn’t care, but referees might
Actually, someone did ask about what sort of damage would remove a game piece from use. Not quite the same question, but I do anticipate that a robot that rendered a game piece unusable in one go would be asked to fix something. That RC is–if not fixed by pushing–pretty much unusable, and even after the fix it would be “suspect” (that is, monitored for cracking, and probably replaced for eliminations).
My take on a possible Q&A: “If a single robot interacts with a game piece such that the game piece is deformed, but still can be restored to near its original condition in a short period of time, would this in general be considered damage per G16? We recognize that the referees have final say during the match, but would like some guidance for the teams.”
Laughing cause our bot has done the same thing. The rc goes back to its normal shape by itself sometimes, sometimes it needs a little help.
Actually if Judges saw your robot do this while observing matches they might care.
I would think that the FTAs and field managers might get a bit miffed and sick the inspectors after you.
As a referee, if you do this once I’d let it slide, but if you’re doing this consistently I’d consider it to be in violation of G16.
That being said, ask the question Eric suggested on the Q&A, it’s a good question.
I would say if your robot intentionally does that to the bin, we have a problem and will get penalties for it.
Here’s my issue with this deformation:
Regardless of how easy or difficult it is to restore the game piece back to its original state, what happens if another team wants to interact with that game piece?
That recycling container could fall off or another robot might want to come grab it and place it somewhere else. By deforming the game piece like that, you have significantly altered the ways in which another team can interact with it.
Definitely a question for the the QA.
I don’t know if you’d get disqualified but if the referees feel that your doing it every match, deliberately, you’ll probably get fouled.
Best to ask either the Q&A like what’s been suggested before and/or talk to your head referee when you get to your competition if your robot is still doing that to them.
I wouldn’t expect the Game Design Committee to give a definitive opinion on what constitutes game piece damage. My feeling is that the decision should be left up to the referees and field supervisor.
An annual reminder:
Judges wear blue shirts and give you awards
Referees wear zebra stripes and give you fouls/cards.
I agree with Alan. You won’t get an actionable answer on Q&A.
Put on your “running the event” hat and think about this scenario.
The field reset people find that, after being squished 10 times, the recycle bin fails and has to be replaced. 4 of 64 teams are doing the squishing. There’s a limited quantity of backup bins. You have a competition to run. Do you tell the 4 teams they can’t squish the bin, or run the risk that you run out and have to stop competing?
And inspectors wear green hats and give you inspection stickers.
To add a couple more cents to the thread… The teams that are picking up the totes by the flange near the top edge of the tote are also deforming the totes every time they pick one up. An argument could be made that the flange will only be able to be deformed so many times before it fails as well.
Those banners are very confusing to me.
There’s a very simple explanation as to how they won Curie from the Archimedes field in 2007.
Andy Baker must have been on the team then.