Today, Me and my team participated in the 2nd day of the Florida Regional. And a call by the field officials was made, that we and probably you all would not agree with after reading this.
Okay, where to begin. The night before today (the first day of the regional), we were the last one’s to get inspected before the Pit. Admin closd for the night. We hadn’t played any practice matches all day because we were trying to get the bugs out of our programming code, So we obviously had not gotten inspected during the day. Anyway, at night we had just barely got the weight of our robot down to where it was less than 110 pounds (our maximum). So this morning we had to get two things done to finish inspection.
In the morning we came and got our robot sized perfectly, it fit in the box and we had passed the sizing part of the inspection, Next was the visual and electronics evaluation of the robot. So, one the officials came over to our pit, evaluated us, everything was looking good so he put the sticker on the side of our bot wrote our information on his sheet, and gave us a thumbs up (Notice that he did not sign the sticker, he only put it on).
So later in the afternoon, we go to our last and final match of today. At this point in time, our rank amongst the other team was in the lower 40’s because a previous match that we had won. Now, we step onto the field and we are about to start when the head official notices that the sticker is not signed on our robot, (Which we were completely unaware of since the official that had inspected us assured us that the inspection was complete and we were “safe”) So he stopped the match before it was going to begin took us onto the field and showed us the problem. So, our mentor, insisted to the referee that why doesn’t he tell someone to get the sheet that says whether we passed inspection or not from the person who inspected us. That is all the officials had to do, was look at that sheet, or simply call the person who inspected us. But we were mandated to take our robot to the side of the field, and they told us that a person was coming to verify that we were inspected, then 10 seconds before the match started, another official came and signed it, but the head ref, said that he cannot put you in because they have already declared that the match will begin, (Now, you guys must realize what we must be feeling right now, after knowing that we were ejeted from a match, for something that we had no control over, it was completely and utterly their fault and that because of this our rank has now plummeted to 46) So we went back to our pit, Most of us furious at this point, and at the end of the day, we found the official that had inspected us, and we asked him why. Why all this happened, and why he had not signed the sticker after inspecting us. And this is exactly what he told us, “Yesterday was my first day, I didn’t know that we had to sign the stickers”, and he also said that the person in charge of him had not told him anything about signing inspection stickers.
So, my question to you, the CD community is, How could FIRST let something like this happen? And also, Why did the referee handle the situation in the manner that he did? I mean, I just think that this is not right, and it should be brought up to the FIRST community. I mean, has FIRST really come to this?
Never in previous years, have I ever criticized the officials or FIRST, but now for the first time, I am realizing that tomorow,(The Final Day of the regional) My team is going to lose, not because of our robot failing, not because of a bad alliance pairing, but because of FIRST.
At this point, I don’t know who to blame, or who is truly at fault, I am just craving to know, was this fair, or is this an injustice?
Sorry to hear about your situation.
I hope it doesnt affect your seeding too much and that you have the same opportunities to make the playoffs.
No one is to blame. FIRST didn’t do this. The Ref didn’t do this. The Inspector didn’t do this. It was an accident. No one wanted you to miss your match. To make you feel a bit better, Rank means nothing in this game. One of the best scorers at VCU was in the low 40’s at the end of the round-robin and went to the QF’s.
It’s not fair. it’s not right, but stuff like this happens. If you don’t get picked for finals tomorrow, get in those stands and cheer for those who did. Remember, this is FIRST.
I agree the situation that you had to deal with was not a pleasant one at all and I would be very upset if it happened to me, but going to the extent of saying that you will lose because of FIRST is uncalled for. You have matches scheduled on Saturday where you can show your team and your robots ability. While you may not be able to be one of the top eight “picking teams” you can still be easily be picked by any of them. If you go out onto the field tomorrow and you show that you have what it takes to win, there is no reason that you will not be in the elimination rounds.
Yes, I realize what you are saying, but I just can’t get past the fact that how did this happen. How did the inspector not get told to do something, how did he “not know”. I mean this is FIRST for god sake’s. And above all, how can we prevent something like this from happening next year, or even at the championship? If the officials don’t know, then who does. I mean for all we know their can be a handful of tams in my regional, who that inspector inspected that day, who are still participating and will participate tomorrow. So how can an issue like this be enforced if the officials, simply “don’t know”
You were our partner in that match, and we lost because they pulled you off. Basically that simple. I didn’t know why, but now that I do, I’m real thrilled too. The inspection process was over the top. I don’t blame any of the volenteers. They were doing what was asked of them. I just wish these kinds of things could be avoided, but this whole thing is getting over complicated. I thought our bot was in the best possible condition in our history to go thru inspection. I thought we would zip thru at record pace. But after an hour went by and we were still going, I started to get frustrated. It just seems like that whole process should be simpler. I’m sorry you guys had to go thru that. I hope you can overlook it, and try and see the bright side of FIRST. We put a lot of hard work into our teams and bots. It all culminates at your competition, and you have high expectations. Then these silly things ruin it for us. All we can do is make the best of it, or all that work was in vein.
I’m sorry that this happened to you.
Is it fair? No, but life seldom is fair.
Blaming FIRST or the officials is not the answer though. You have the oppertunity here to show that no matter what they throw at you, you will prevail (true first spirit). Show them what teamwork and FIRST is about. If I were you, I’d go to that inspector and tell him it’s all OK (I’ll bet he feels worse about this than you do).
Mistakes happen. It’s how we react to them and what we learn from them that shows what type of people we are.
He’s a rookie inspector, Cut him a break. I know alot of the rookie teams were helped out alot this year. Do the same thing for the rookie Volunteers as well.
Perhaps you can gather all 6 teams in that match and plead for a Rematch of that match?
well said, except its “vain.”
Its just unfortunate mistake and i am sorry to hear it happen to you. I am sorry for the teams you were matched with. All you can do is keep your head up and dont let it bother you. It happened and its over. Tommorow is a new day.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I don’t see how missing one match is going to make or break your regional. If your a strong bot you’ll get picked. With the matching the way it is, I didn’t think rank took an almighty weight in the decision.
Course then again this is my first year and FLR has like 35 bots, not 40+
No, I wasn't even accusing the inspector, It was the person in charge of him that had not told him anything about signing the stickers. In the end though, we explained to him though that it really wasn't his fault, because we really saw that he felt bad about and we realized that it was not his fault that he did not know.
Let this be a lesson to all - make sure that your sticker is signed.
It is unfortunate that it happened, but if you don’t mind - let’s turn this around and use it to help the other teams.
This way they won’t go through the same situation, and feel as bad as your team does.
Mike
It doesnt matter, FIRST is infallable. Our whole allience was getting a “no signal” message and lost control at short times, but the offical just waved us off when confronted. Even if it isn’t fair, you just have to move onto the next match. And I wouldn’t call 40 to 46 an exessive drop.
these things happen and no one wished that it did.
It can happen to all of us.
For example, NJ had problems where they had to restart our finals match 3 times in a row! Team 25 was stuck on the rack and was immobolized. But, they restarted the match. We also scored during autonomous in the SF match, a rare occurence. Guess what? Restart again because the ref forgot to remove the opponents one that didnt score which did after the period started. Luckily we won anyways.
The worst is we have to spend over 25k per trip just to attend a regional, but hey, cant help that we live overseas…
Good luck to you folks and I hope it all works out.
Ok, let me start at square one…
First off, from what I read in your post, you’re not a rookie team. Therefore you should have known that the sticker needed to be signed (the same as every other year), so you truly have no one to blame except yourselves.
Secondly…
To blame FIRST as a group and then to plead to them is contradictory. Remember that FIRST is not just the volunteers, refs, judges, and various others that make it possible for this competition to exist. It also includes the assorted teams and thier mentors, because when it comes right down to it, all of us are volunteers and this massive world-wide competition depends on all of us working together in that spirit of “gracious professionalism” that Woodie Flowers is always talking about.
Third…
Placing blame in the first place…
hmmmm…
gracious professionalism…
hmmmm…
ok, I’ll leave that one be…
I think that you can figure that one out yourself…
Fourth…
Always remember that tomorrow is another day. Even if you aren’t one of the seed teams, you could still be picked as an alliance partner. You just have to show that your robot is dependable and that your drive team is capable.
That means that instead of complaining, you need find a “creative solution to the problem” (hey look! another Woodie Flowers quote!).
If it’s too late to fix the problem, then there’s nothing you can do anyway! So move on!
And finally Fifth…
To answer your question (the title of this thread)…
Yep…it’s fair…utterly and completly fair…
The ref’s call is final…the head ref’s call is just short of holy writ…
That’s how it works in FIRST, but you should know that already because you’re not a rookie team.
But to end on a happy note…always remember that you’re never the only one with problems, you were simply removed from one match (and that problem was rectified), some teams missed several matches or made it to the match only to have thier robot sit completly still…
So you’re not alone, we all deal with it, so suck it up!
Yeah… Same thing happened to us (my previous team) at a regional last year (Chesapeake, I think…) During the match, we lost our radio, and 5 seconds later, one of our alliances lost their radio. I immediately called the IFI guy over who was standing on the side of the field, and he looked at it, I made him aware of the situation, and shouted for a rematch. After the match, I talked to the IFI guy and the head ref, and after 10 minutes of a VERY heated discussion, it was ruled that they were two separate problems that were both of fault of the robot, and the score stood. We only lost by a few points, even though 2 of our bots were out for about half the game. Unfortunately for my team, this was our only loss, caused us to drop from 1 to 3, which caused us to not get our first pick, who we wound up losing to in the finals. But you know what? This is FIRST. Sure, I felt badly and perhaps “ripped off” afterward, but I had no hard feelings. Soon I was over it, and all in all was very happy with the event. It really wasn’t anyone’s fault, the two robots failed simultaneously, due to an unknown fault. Putting myself in the other alliances shoes, had the problems been due to physical problems on both of our robots, I would feel “ripped off” if they let us replay the match. The same type of thing applies here. Had your robot not actually passed inspection, the reason why your sticker wasn’t signed, I would feel “ripped off” if I was the other alliance because they let an illegal robot play. Even though your robot did pass inspection, the series of event occurred in which it may have led to questioning of this fact. It is what it is, through no fault of anyone.
That was a really long, probably unnecessary story.
Jacob
–Remember, good posts deserve good rep!
A single loss, a single match, or your ranking really don’t make or break a regional. 45 was ranked 37th of 45 teams at St. Louis, with a 3-6 record. They were then picked 2nd, and went on to win the regional.
As pointed out a couple time already, you’re ranked ahead of 233 at the moment, who’s arm was essentially destroying itself earlier.
This is just a little issue in a single match. A volunteer made a mistake, and a problem happened. There is no guarantee you would have won the match even with you on the field (and for anyone to say so is insulting the other alliance). It’s unfortunate to hear that happened, but it did. How you react to problems is the important part.
It’s also unfortunate to hear the inspection woes at UCF. For most teams, inspection was relatively fast at VCU. The longest part for 116 was probably when the inspector actually took a break to take some pictures of our robot (the absolute coolest moment I have ever experience in FIRST, nothing could have made me more proud of my machine than an inspector stopping to take pictures). Luckily for us, we passed the first try (we had an issue with a single bolt on the machine, which we fixed while being inspected). Very few teams missed matches due to inspection, and the couple who did managed for enough other teams to pitch in and help them pass that they made almost all their matches.