Is this Game Broken?

OCR elims saw some pretty intense defense that kept scores lower than expected in many matches. Caused some “upsets”, too.

So, I’m still going with game not broken.


1138 was immense on defense in elims. Turns out the best way to counter star defense is with your own star defense :sweat_smile:

1138 was able to slow 4481, but 4414 just zipped around them. And 1138 by far was the exception among defensive robots all weekend. I doubt that what they did can be duplicated by other 2nd pick bots. So I don’t see a general advantage for defenders in this game, and we most certainly haven’t seen in most competitions. There were just a couple of others that were nearly as effective, but almost all others were just traffic cones that created more chaos for their own alliance.

BTW, one thing to keep in mind is the evolution of the game. In 2017 in Week 1, 0.32% of quals matches reached 4 rotors. In Week 7, 37% did, a hundred fold increase. We could see the same pattern this year.


OCR elims had all sorts of issues that kept scores down (or inflated them!) including a match where red was in the blue community zone and blue in the red community zone! What is characterized as “defense” often is better called “interference” and “congestion.”

That said, it appears defense can be effective against high CG tank bots and swerve that isn’t well driven.

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Blockading the Loading Zone will be called, but the question is about the Community Zone. I’m not seeing the scenario you’re describing. A driver can just anticipate the defender and drive straight over the ramp. I don’t understand about tipping the ramp on the defender. Being able to move the ramp would be a field fault, and one I haven’t seen yet.

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The most effective strategy used on us was 5274 in finals 2. I think teams looking to play effective defense should consider a CG raise for champs:


If you use Max swerve you can get your frame perimeter down to 11x11 for maximum tippage.


Amateurs iterate on scoring an extra game piece in autonomous mode.

Experts iterate on opportunistically drawing G207 calls.


How about a bonus point for each second before t=0 the charge station is continuously level?

However this is probably a bad idea, as this simple rule would make side climbing (1678, 359 and others) increasingly meta throughout the championship, and if a rule like that would have existed on Kickoff a lot of teams would have worked on similar robots.


Also sticking your 3rd bot on the charge station at t=135 of teleop and choosing not to balance otherwise would be very lucrative points wise


In my opinion the game isn’t broken. Just because it becomes theoretically possible to achieve a max score certainly doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with the game. It just means that the game changes from only achieving the max score to also preventing your opponents from scoring.

But, if you’re really wrapped around the axle about it, a simple fix is to extend the autonomous time period from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. This could also come with the addition of another row of 4 preplaced game pieces down the center of the field which either alliance can score.


Fine, maybe make it the last 30 seconds. XD

Still not a good fix, but time based scoring is interesting.

I have yet to see a team able to drive over the ramp as fast as they can drive on flat ground. A defender has a big speed advantage there. If the offense robot is moving that fast, there’s a good chance they will simply fly off the ramp and onto the defense robot, destroying them. Which may or may not be a red card depending on who’s reffing.

And according to JJ’s Law, therefore maximum whippage, yes?


I just want a button to disable your alliance for bonus points like 2001.


Introduce a new cone of a different color that can only be placed on top of a scored cone, and then add a bonus for creating vertical links with a capped cone.

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I’d have to see a defensive robot able to respond that quickly. They probably go fast enough (and we haven’t seen that defensive response yet.) In addition, defense works in the lanes around the ramp because the swerve bot has a limited range to escape. That’s not the case coming off the ramp.

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Anyone else getting a slight flashback from these discussions to 2014’s “FIRST is going to announce a change mid-season where you have to hang from the TRUSS”


2014 didn’t have problems with score saturation, though…

More so the fact that everyone is speculating on ways FIRST is going to add or change something fundamental midway through the season.

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