Is this Game Broken?

The Zebra MotionWorks data on that match is amazing to watch!


Telling the story of the match with no video needed! I’d love to see more teams make use of Zebra MotionWorks at champs—it makes spectating so, so much more enjoyable.


“I want… like 2001” has to be a brand new sentence construction.

Also how they continually design games with these large protected zones. And if the zones are needed to make the game work, then maybe that should be considered a problem with the game.

I would like to see this as well. The reason we have so much trouble trying to call these situations in a “fair” manner is precisely because there is no codified stance on the “primary” game actions. Playing defense is an inherently risky tactic - you are intentionally causing collisions when you do it, that’s the whole point.

When the entire game is setup around doing the scoring actions, you have to not penalize teams for earnestly trying to do those things. That’s not to say all penalties are bad - for example, hitting opponents in their community is not allowed because that interferes with them doing the main game tasks of scoring pieces. Same goes for the loading zone. Makes sense.

When you penalize the team that is trying to do the things the game asks them to do, as opposed to the one that is trying to slow other teams down, you invite all sorts of nonsense, like the proposed G201/G206 Red Card Chicken here.


Long Island 1 regional could be a warning of whats to come. Red won Finals Match 1 by 1 point. Blue won match 2 easily when 3015 tipped. Red came back to (apparently) win match 3 by 1 point. But, it looks like the refs missed two Blue robots getting mobility. The #1 alliance was 17/18 at getting mobility before that match and it looks pretty clear that all 3 robots achieved mobility.

Refs (or scorekeepers?) do their best, but they will never be perfect. But, when the match scores are soooo close due to diminishing grid points, the mistakes will be more likely to end teams’ season in heartbreak.


I think you mean SBPLI1?

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That is really really unfortunate…

These are the details the driveteam (and in theory, those in the stands) needs to catch and get the appropriate person in the Q box if there is an issue. Now, with no video reviews… this is why meetings with the head ref at the beginning of the event are important.

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Zebra data though…

edit: Seems as though FIRST is uninterested in using this data as well, after asking one of the PNW FTA’s i’ve learned this is also not allowed to be brought to HR’s for questioning.

Off topic rant about the lack of Zebra use at events

Frankly still annoyed how miniscule the Zebra integration has been thus far. This stuff is so cool, and yet we havent gotten much farther than just showing bots drive around on TBA match pages after almost 5 years…


If the community pushes hard enough, would HQ adopt or resort to build their own?

HQ is likely part of the problem.


we had both teams (870 and 2872) go to the q box but only after the match was decided because we didn’t know that we failed to get the mobility points until then and even then they stated that 2872 and 334 failed mobility while tba shows they marked team 870 as not making mobility and even in the other case team 2872 also made mobility like they did every match (im a little bias but i tried to state mostly facts)

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That FUN AMA with Collin Fultz explains why…

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Sorry but this is bogus. The question box is a joke. It’s literally only good for raising issues that will hopefully be caught in future matches.

It can rarely be useful for getting matches replayed due to field faults (and even then it serves its purpose poorly).

1000 times out of 1000 the Head Referee will say “Sorry we didn’t see that, but we’ll try to catch it next time”.

“Next time” isn’t very useful in Finals 3.


Right, but doing nothing gains you… What exactly?


Exactly the same amount as going to the question box. With some added frustration about how broken the system is.


Ok, to each their own.


In this case, probably.

I successfully got a foul that had been erroneously applied to the wrong alliance fixed back when I was a student. Very occasionally, you’ll get a ref that remembers what they saw and knows they must’ve hit the wrong thing on the panel (or forgot to hit the panel). Just be respectful, remember that you’re there for clarification and not to argue, and sometimes it works out.

Not really commenting on this particular situation, though.


Unfortunately the match vid is no longer available, but when I was a student we successfully got a match result updated (made a difference in the win) because a frisbee at the top of the pyramid was not scored (ancient FRC history, ik). Slightly different situation as the gamepiece was there at the end, but the point is opening the communication with the ref(s) is very important, or else nothing happens at all.

Little to no excuse for missing auto mobility imo. That has been a staple in FRC games for… Quite a long time. New people need to be trained in of course, but short of something crazy happening (out of control robot) it’s pretty cut and dry.

I can’t be the only one out there that “scouts” refs to ID issues before they may negatively impact our playoff alliance…