"IT" But not in our town....

I was a little disapointed when “IT” turned out to be exactly what many of us suspected over the last 18 months.
I cant see the world designing whole cities around a 2 wheeled scooter, if that were the case they would just build moving side walks. This invention will not surpass the invention of the computer either.
Dean would have a tough time in many cities in America, riding any thing wheeled as they are baned on the side walks. Our town has a town wide ban on skates, Blades and Scooters ( motorized or not).
This is a great TOY but only for the wealthy. I dont see this ever being anything more than a FAD… Sorry Dean, Back to the drawing Board.

If you want to buy one they are on sale at K-Mart $19.99 Batteries not included.
Batteries $2989.99
Nick 237

I don’t think that Dean’s comment about cities being designed for IT came out quite right. IMHO, he meant that the design for a second lane in the sidewalk would be integrated, not that cities would crop up because if IT. Maybe at this stage of IT, it is not bigger than computers, but Dean always has something up his sleeves. Applications for more advanced IT technology are not hard to find. I’m betting Dean will collaborate with a major auto company and aid in the evolution of the hybrid.

Say it ain’t so Nick!!! Critical of and disappointed in something done by Dean or FIRST??? Should start raining cats & dogs any day now. :slight_smile:

Seriously though, if you want to be disappointed because it can’t beam you across the country or fly, that’s your prerogative - but don’t simplify things to a comical degree by calling that a k-mart scooter. It’s a fairly remarkable piece of engineering which goes WAY BEYOND being a toy.

Show me a “scooter” which goes 8-20 mph, is quiet, environmentally friendly, ANYONE can use (young and old without fear of tipping over), can BALANCE itself, and can be used safely on many surfaces. The applications will be many more than you can currently think of. Just the use by mail carriers, airports, security patrols, and downtown traffic will be very beneficial AND help the environment by decreasing the use of gas burning vehicles. “Your town” may still have rules against anything wheeled - but most do not and will not. I know our “town” of 1 million people will have many businesses and people who find the Segway an extremely useful advancement.

And you don’t have to worry, Dean has probably never left the drawing board and is far along on a few other inventions which will help the world in some way or another (sterling engine, more medical devices, more transportation devices, etc.).

That’s my 2 cents on the IT unveiling. I hope DEKA keeps up the good work.

A personal letter from Dean Kamen to the members of theITquestion.com:

Greetings!
Now that it is finally the right time to show Project “Ginger” - which we call the Segway™ Human Transporter (HT) - to the world, it also seems appropriate to address (for the first time) the many members of this forum who have been following this project so intently.

I never asked for, nor wanted, all of the attention this project received during the past year. In fact, when all of this began in January, we were hoping that the whole subject of “Ginger,” and DEKA in general, would fall off the radar screen quickly and quietly. For the most part it did, with the exception of forums such as yours. I speak for everyone at DEKA and our new company Segway when I say that we are both flattered and amazed by the enthusiastic, spirited and, for the most part, positive comments you have made throughout the year. You should be commended for your dedication, stamina, and internet research skills.

Moreover, I realize that nothing, not even Segway HT, can live up to someone’s imagination. Although Segway HT is not a teleportation device, a hovercraft, or any of the other fanciful suggestions that have been made, we believe that Segway HT is a technological advance in short distance transportation that can change the world for the better. While, in the near term, people will now have the power to move faster, go farther, and carry more in a fun, environmentally friendly, and economical way, I believe the impact of Segway HT could be far more profound. This new technology fills a wide gap in the current transportation continuum and gives us the power to solve many of the problems, such as urban congestion and pollution, created by rapidly growing megacities.

Although I have always been extremely proud of all of our projects, I am well aware that, as with most inventions, this transformation will take time. The world did not look any different the day after alternating current, the automobile, or the airplane were first invented. Each of these inventions took a substantial amount of time to create the profound and dramatic changes they eventually achieved. So to, while Segway HT will have immediate impacts upon commercial productivity, we realize that it may not achieve its most profound effects so quickly. However, because Segway HT, unlike many of these other technological “discontinuities,” does not require the creation of an entirely new infrastructure, its true potential may be realized far more rapidly.

Given the technologically savvy and perceptive comments that have been posted on this forum and similar forums over the past year, I trust that you will understand, perhaps better than many, the significant potential of our efforts. I encourage you to keep these forums active - even though the “IT” question has been resolved - because intellectual discussions such as those you have engaged in for the past year are all too rare these days. I hope that you would consider devoting your efforts to a wide ranging discussion of how this new technology and other developing technologies can be used to address some of the real issues of our time.

Finally, I would be remiss if I did not mention one of my other great passions - FIRST. I personally challenge each of you to become involved in FIRST. If you were all to apply even a small amount of the enthusiasm and energy to FIRST as you have to these forums, you could truly help to change the world for the better (one student at a time). For more information on how you can get involved, please visit our web site at www.usfirst.org.

Respectfully,

Dean Kamen

Nick, I feel the pain that is given by the ban on wheeled transportation in this town… But, I personally think that Dean is correct in his letter… Things will not change overnight, and it will take years, at least, for any large change to occur… It is an amazing invention, not because of what it allows us to do, but because of the possibilites it now gives us in the future…

Rob M.

Forget the golf carts that FIRST employees long for at EPCOT…bring on Segway!
Most of you have seen the size of the village at EPCOT during the Championship…Segway would come in VERY handy for the FIRST employees and volunteers that have to get from the pit to the Main Stage in a VERY short amount of time! The Championship is always a time when most of the staff an volunteers lose a bit of weight (probably a good thing! …speaking for myself)…but the use of Segway would come in WAY handy at EPCOT…
Maybe Dean would consider building a couple before the Championship this year??? :slight_smile:

Segway would make a pretty cool placebo; nice product placement too.

Hey Jason, If you go back to the general board there is a post by Ken, It asks “Why dont people post”. Well I think the answer is YOU.
This is the General Board where one is suposed to be alowed to express their thoughts and Ideas. The nice thing about Thoughts and Ideas are that they are usualy ones own. If I had known that my opinion would ruffle your feathers I would have run my thoughts past you first for your aproval…
I said I was a little disapointed as the hype was not the earth shattering invention that we had been led to believe. I didnt say it wasnt clever or even amazing but I wouldnt say it was an Engineering apex either. I stand by my comment about it being a Fad and a rich mans Toy. You your self said " It’s a fairly remarkable piece of engineering which goes WAY BEYOND being a toy".
( fairly remarkable ) are your words, gee what would Dean think of your laxity.
I do not see cities being designed around the Segway and I dont see cities spending mega millions of Tax payers Dollars on a private Segway side walk designed just for them, in fact I dont see them fixing the cracks in the existing side walk out side my house.
There must be 100.000 mail cariers in the united states, the comercial model is $8000. you do the math but an extra penny on a postage stamp wont pay for them all. As for a cleaner enviroment with the Segway if you believe this then your dreaming because untill the power plants produce energy with out the use of fossil fuel or Nuclear energy we will continue poluting the planet. The Segway needs electricity to work and plugs into any local ( Dirty ) power station.
You also said “Your town” may still have rules against anything wheeled - but most do not and will not. I think you might want to check with some local town and city ordinances you may be quite surprised that they do have Laws prohibiting the riding and use of wheeled vehicals on the side walk. They dont want the litigation.
In my opinion I think the Infusion machine and the Wheel chair that Dean invented were true wonders of engineering, and that Dean will continue inventing and manufacturing amazing inovations to man kind but Segway is not going to be one of them but thats just my opinion if thats ok by you Jason.
Nick237
:frowning:

This is the General Board where one is suposed to be alowed to express their thoughts and Ideas. The nice thing about Thoughts and Ideas are that they are usualy ones own. If I had known that my opinion would ruffle your feathers I would have run my thoughts past you first for your aproval…

Relax Nick.

1 - I think I made a very wrong assumption. If you look back at my post, both of my comments were made sarcasticly and were followed by smiley faces. You post here often, so I felt it was safe you would know that meant those comments were banter - in jest. I apologize if you didn’t notice those symbols or misunderstood their intention. I don’t apologize for sharing my opinion about Segway, as you shouldn’t either. There is no right or wrong, and we won’t know for years anyway if it takes hold or is just a fad.

2 - Your original post certainly didn’t ruffle my feathers. (I was disappointed in your reaction to my reply, but not “ruffled”) :slight_smile:

As I already said, my reply was just banter - as I also consider this forum a source of opinions and certainly would never let a general forum post change my general outlook on a day. Life is too short.

3 - I do feel that you may have slightly over reacted here, just a bit - but I apologize for replying to your post. If I knew it would bother you, I certainly would not have. Friendly banter can be misinterpreted by some, and I realize our senses of humor are probably not aligned - so I will be careful not to be sarcastic or joke with you in the future.

I agree with you Nick that this is a general board, EVERYONE is encouraged to express their thoughts and ideas, and EVERYONE is encouraged to reply to them. Shouldn’t that apply to both of us though?

Again, I apologize if you took exception to me sharing my thoughts and ideas - I certainly didn’t intend to ruffle your feathers. While I sometimes (not all the time) disagree with your critical views of FIRST, I don’t take any of it personally and enjoy hearing your perspective - as it is always valid. Sometimes we agree, others we don’t - but that’s the beauty of the phrase “sometimes we must just agree to disagree”. We all benefit from hearing other opinions on topics.

As you are sometimes critical on your posts Nick, I felt you would allow others the same latitude. Regardless of any posts, I do want to say I was very pleasantly surprised when our teams were allied together at the Nationals last year. You had made many posts expressing your displeasure with FIRST and your frustrations during the build cycle - I was worried you or your team would be bitter or upset at the Nationals, but that was not true. It was a pleasure discussing strategy with you (we had a good one) and we were expecting to get a very big score until one of the other robots fell over on the bridge. You and your team handled it fabulously, made some great moves to help almost salvage a good score, and most importantly you & your team were very gracious and fun to work with. I know we were all disappointed with the bad luck and low score (lowest we got all year), but it was actually one of the best matches I had seen where every team worked together to solve a sudden problem. You might not remember this Nick (and probably find this hard to believe) - but we got along well. :slight_smile: I enjoyed chatting with you and would welcome being allied with you & your team anytime in the future. I hope you have a great 2002 season.

*Originally posted by -Lori *
**Forget the golf carts that FIRST employees long for at EPCOT…bring on Segway!
Most of you have seen the size of the village at EPCOT during the Championship…Segway would come in VERY handy for the FIRST employees and volunteers that have to get from the pit to the Main Stage in a VERY short amount of time! The Championship is always a time when most of the staff an volunteers lose a bit of weight (probably a good thing! …speaking for myself)…but the use of Segway would come in WAY handy at EPCOT…
Maybe Dean would consider building a couple before the Championship this year??? :slight_smile: **

I’m sure Dean won’t be seen without it. At least thats how it was with the I-Bot, after it was announced publically.

Jason, ah the good times :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: yes I remember those times very well, we were real contenders but such is the cruelty of life. There are two side to me that few people recognize, theres pre game and game. The game is the 6 weeks of building with the competition time and then there is the rest of the year.
Many people assume that when I post an opinion that it naturaly criticizes Dean or FIRST but thats not true. I express my concerns in the hope that this will give a heads up to the powers that “do” and that some of the concerns that I have for the competition might be re-thought.
I have it on good authority that Dean reads our posts as per the post above. My year is broken down into 2 segments, 7 weeks of uncontroled excitement and 45 weeks of BLAHHHH. :frowning: I wish it was the other way around.
I humbly apologize to you, I over reacted to your post and I should not have, we all agree to disagree. I hope that the segway is a massive success and contrary to belief I would love one for Xmas ( Dean hint hint ) :smiley:
I just had a thought, if Dean sent me one I could ride it around our wheel banned sidewalks and challenge their stupid rules and regulations. Think of the publicity to the town, they would soon change the rules.
Only 30 more days to go and the real fun begins, Hopefully we will have better luck this time if were together again.
Have a great year.
Nick237

Got to do this Nick, with the PNTA sponsor being a Nuclear Power company.

Segway’s utilization of electricity is an enormous pollution decreasing factor, even if it is generated by fossil fuel plants; for they are far more efficient than an ICE.

And if the power is being generated by nuclear means, it is the most clean (widely used) power generation technology available.

Any electric vehicle offers a high level of work vs. pollution.

Kurt

Hmmm, Tree mile island…Chernoble…and where do you send your spent fuel rods and how many zillion years do they have to remain there?.
Hydro-electric… Wind generators… Solar energy to name a few, These are far cleaner than Nuclear, and safer.
There will come a time though that will amaze historians that we ever considered Nuclear or fosil methods for generating energy, these are the methods that we have to pursue. Its not that far in the future either. I would say in the next 25 years we will see new technology that will make even electricity redundant.
My only hope is that they invent it in my life time or they find a cure for the aging proccess…LOL
Nick237 :smiley:

Three mile island and Chernoble did not pollute as a function of nuclear power…they polluted as a function of nuclear accidents. Nuclear accidents are not a necessary or predictable part of nuclear power generation.

Nuclear power generation offers extremely low pollution.

The control rods for the Pilgrim Nuclear power plant for the next (somewhere on the order of) 50 years (B please correct me if I’m wrong) are stored in an onsite facility (pool) that measures approximately 20’ x 20’. There are no other waste products created.

Kurt

While electric vehicles are “clean” locally, ie they don’t spew exhaust into your face. They may not be all that much cleaner globally. In a sense, you are taking many small distributed sources of pollution and turning them into a single bigger point source. This assumes that pollution controls are equally effective in both cases.

The bigger comes from the fact that there are conversion losses when you convert thermal energy to mechanical energy to electrical energy and back to mechanical. That is basically what happens when you power an electric vehicle. In a vehicle powered by an ICE there is only one conversion, thermal to mechanical.

At least a few years ago, when I was working on a power plant exhaust filtration project, the emision controls on large power plants were not as good as those on a car on a percentage basis as they had to deal with so much volume. Things may have changed and I’m willing to listen to any experts out there who can tell me differently, but all I’ve seen to date indicates that electric power plants based on fossil fuels merely relocate the problems. They don’t eliminate them.

But this is a regular debate here, it comes up at least once or twice a year, so I’ll shut up and wait til next time. The beauty of the Segway is that it reduced the amount of energy required to accomplish a task be at least an order of magnitude, no matter how the energy is created. That’s where big environmental savings happen.

Disclaimer: I am an aerospace engineer. While like all mechanicals I studied power plants and engines and their efficiencies in school, I do not have current data on typical installations. If there are any power plant guys who want to weigh in on this I defer to your knowledge. I am just trying to point out that there is more to the issue than what spews in your face (or doesn’t) as you pull away from a stoplight on your bicycle.

Christopher H Husmann, PE
Team 330, The Beach’Bots

who logged 2500 miles on his bicycle last year

As you say, electric vehicles relocate pollution rather than eliminate it if the electricity is produced by a fossil fuel plant. I’m not sure I’ve read any estimates in overall efficiency of an electric vehicle vs an IC engine powered vehicle. Neither is very efficient.

The benefit of the electric is in improving air quality in cities where there are a lot of vehicles. I suspect, though, that many Asian cities could clean up the air a lot with the less extreme measure of replacing their many 2-stroke engine powered mopeds and scooters with machines with 4-stroke engines. The 2-strokes are very dirty, and they use considerably more gas than 4-strokes. I was in Shanghai a few years ago, and the air was blue and smelly with exhaust from the small 2-stroke bikes, and I’m sure there are cities with much worse air than Shanghai.

I think the most important aspect of supposedly clean transportation is that it is much easier to upgrade one power plant instead of 100,000 personal vehicles.

It seems that given the inescapable warm up time for Stirlings they’ll never work for personal transport, but that doesn’t mean they can’t–via power plants–supply the power.

Clean and green homes, automobiles and ways of living log on hereNESEA This is the website for among other thing, the American Tour De Sol. It is a road rally involving alternative fueled vehicles. On this page
the truck in the background is powered by LPG and a 96v Battery pack and belongs to the college I go to!

Go Team Kineticar!!!

Sorry for the shameless plug but oh well! LOL
:smiley: