Leftover Autonomous Balls?

So I haven’t really seen this on CD or in the rules but if I have missed it please tell me. So if Robot A,B and C start with balls in autonomous and they miss these shots what happens to these balls since the rules say only one ball per alliance at a time? :confused:

The balls stay in play, but are not counted if they are scored. If they get stuck in a robot, your alliance will be incapable of scoring until that ball enters a goal.

According to our discussion with a few FIRST staff (including Frank) at kickoff, all of the autonomous balls must be scored BEFORE you can bring new balls in off of the pedestal.

Score all three and then you can start feeding from your HP.

I believe the game manual states it this way…

Each robot gets a ball to start autonomous, unless a team chooses to start their robot in the goalie zone. In that case, they can either choose to place their ball on the field where an alliance partner can reach and score it, or they can choose to have their ball removed for the duration of autonomous.

After autonomous ends, the new cycle does not start until all the balls in play during autonomous have been scored, and no assist bonuses can be earned. Once all autonomous balls have been scored, the human player takes a ball from the pedestal, puts it back in play, and the new cycle and collection of assist points can begin!

Here’s the rule to support you…

3.1.2 MATCH Logistics
Although an ALLIANCE may start a MATCH with up to three (3) BALLS, the PEDESTAL will only be illuminated when the last BALL that started the MATCH is SCORED, effectively reducing the number of BALLS in play per ALLIANCE to one (1).

Rule reference…

G5
For ROBOTS starting in the white ZONE, the TEAM may preload one (1) of their ALLIANCE’s BALLS such that the BALL is touching their ROBOT.
For ROBOTS starting in their GOALIE ZONE the TEAM may decide if the BALL is: staged between the TRUSS and the ZONE LINE and not contacting an ALLIANCE partner, or removed from the FIELD for the MATCH.
If a ROBOT does not report to a MATCH, its ALLIANCE may decide if the BALL is: staged between the TRUSS and the ZONE LINE and not contacting an ALLIANCE partner, or removed from the FIELD for the MATCH.
Violation: If the situation is not corrected before the start of the MATCH, TECHNICAL FOUL per BALL improperly staged.

It looks like the commencement of cycles for one alliance is independent of the other. That is, when all the red auto-balls have been scored the red cycles begin even if the blue ones are still bouncing around. Since the assist scores for an alliance cannot commence until cycling, the moral seems to be don’t place an auto-ball for your robot, unless you’re pretty sure you can score it during auto itself or very soon after. The longer an alliance has to get credits for assist scoring the better.

Although 3.1.2 is vaguely worded, I think the intent is per alliance rather than all balls. The sentence starts by referring to alliance (singular) & up to 3 balls.

Interesting thought here. I noticed that G5 says “For ROBOTS starting in the white ZONE, the TEAM may preload one (1) of their ALLIANCE’s BALLS such that the BALL is touching their ROBOT.” Is this improperly worded, or do you think that this means that you can opt to be in the white zone so you can still get the 5 points but not preload a ball?

EDIT: 5 points for driving to the goalie zone, if that wasn’t obvious.

“May” implies that it isn’t mandatory, but that might be because I play a bit too much Magic: the Gathering.

I’m still unclear about whether balls left over from autonomous get any points at all if put into a goal at the start of teleop.

The second paragraph of 3.1.4 states that points are awarded once per CYCLE but then table 3-2 distinguishes the base points for a GOAL with the 1-ASSIST point value. Since assists only exist in a CYCLE and there is a minimum of 1 per legal goal, the base point can reasonable be inferred as the point value for a pre-CYCLE ball scored during teleop.

Off to the Q&A…

3.1.2 MATCH Logistics
Although an ALLIANCE may start a MATCH with up to three (3) BALLS, the PEDESTAL will only be illuminated when the last BALL that started the MATCH is SCORED, effectively reducing the number of BALLS in play per ALLIANCE to one (1).

It says in this section (posted earlier by another user) that the balls must be SCORED before another can be added. As it specifies that these balls are SCORED, I think you do in fact get points.

Today’s team update answers this question clearly:

For BALLS with which the ALLIANCE started the MATCH, points are awarded when they are SCORED in GOALS.

(Sorry if I missed something in the rules or in another thread, but…) Does this mean that if a Robot A starts with a ball inside them for autonomous but is not functioning at all (Robot A never moves throughout the match) (Similar to Team 1717 in the tournament on Newton and Team 118 on Einstein in 2012), the entire alliance is screwed over/can’t score anymore points due to the ball trapped in Robot A? (Or can the alliance start cycling from the pedestal if it is obvious Robot A is dead/disabled and there is no way the ball can be dislodged from Robot A?)

Read the first full sentence of today’s update.

Update Summary

The GDC is aware of the confusion, but needs more time to come up with a (potential) refinement to the CYCLE process.

That was a quick and authoritative clarification to my question!

I think that would be a great q&a question, but i would imagine that so long as a team presses their emergency stop any ball possessed by them will be out of play.

Sorry about that, forgot to check yesterday morning

I would disagree with you on that statement, but would loved to be proved wrong.